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HLB help
Can anyone help please.
I am making a hair styling product.
Oil and wax phase is 42% with required HLB calculated at 11.
I am using ceteareth 25 at 4.5% and peg 7 glycerol cocoate at 9.5% in the complete formula, rest of formula is water at 15% and polymers, clays.
I seem to struggle to get a stable emulsion so what is wrong, are the 2 emulsifiers not enough to stabilize, or wrong ratio. An additional 3rd emulsifier is needed maybe although I have seen many formulas using just these 2 emulsifiers.Also can anyone tell me the HLB of jojoba wax (hydrogenated jojoba oil) as cannot find anywhere online.
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6 Replies
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@Mr_Clean I reasearch for hydrogenated jojoba oil hlb so I find just the hlb of hydrogenated oil generally which is equal to 3,5. About emulsifiers and hair styling product, according to my experience from best way to make it using solid emulsifiers as example mixture of Cetearth one with high hlb and other low hlb, so for your case keep Cetearth-25 and add a low hlb Cetearth I guess you will have very stable product.
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Unlike other oils, jojoba oil can not be turned into a fat or wax by hydrogenation since it is already fully saturated. Though liquid, jojoba oil is already a wax from a chemical point of view. This means, hydrogenated jojoba wax does not exist. It’s just a marketing term which made its way into the INCI list. It is not a chemically well defined product but a custom blend of hydrogenated oils (which are solid) and jojoba oil. The exact composition is likely a trade secret and all you might get is which type of hydrogenated oil is used and approximate ratio of it and jojoba oil.
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“Oil and wax phase is 42% with required HLB calculated at 11.
I am using ceteareth 25 at 4.5% and peg 7 glycerol cocoate at 9.5% in the complete formula, rest of formula is water at 15% and polymers, clays.”I’d be surprised if your product would be stable. PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate has an HLB value of 11 (source: makingcosmetics) and found and another source with an HLB value of 10. Ceteareth 25 has an HLB value of 16.27 (source: makingcosmetics). You are using two O?W emulsifiers, but your emulsion is W/O. Unless you are trying a GelTrap strategy, I don’t see this formulation can be stable.
Another issue, 15% emulsifiers seems a lot. -
em88 said:“Oil and wax phase is 42% with required HLB calculated at 11.
I am using ceteareth 25 at 4.5% and peg 7 glycerol cocoate at 9.5% in the complete formula, rest of formula is water at 15% and polymers, clays.”I’d be surprised if your product would be stable. PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate has an HLB value of 11 (source: makingcosmetics) and found and another source with an HLB value of 10. Ceteareth 25 has an HLB value of 16.27 (source: makingcosmetics). You are using two O?W emulsifiers, but your emulsion is W/O. Unless you are trying a GelTrap strategy, I don’t see this formulation can be stable.
Another issue, 15% emulsifiers seems a lot.Hi, thanks for feedback, why would my formula be water in oil emulsion, isn’t that decided by what emulsifiers I use with their relevant hlb numbers. Would it not be possible to mix 15% water as oil in water emulsion. I use water to blend polymers.
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Mr_Clean said:em88 said:“Oil and wax phase is 42% with required HLB calculated at 11.
I am using ceteareth 25 at 4.5% and peg 7 glycerol cocoate at 9.5% in the complete formula, rest of formula is water at 15% and polymers, clays.”I’d be surprised if your product would be stable. PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate has an HLB value of 11 (source: makingcosmetics) and found and another source with an HLB value of 10. Ceteareth 25 has an HLB value of 16.27 (source: makingcosmetics). You are using two O?W emulsifiers, but your emulsion is W/O. Unless you are trying a GelTrap strategy, I don’t see this formulation can be stable.
Another issue, 15% emulsifiers seems a lot.Hi, thanks for feedback, why would my formula be water in oil emulsion, isn’t that decided by what emulsifiers I use with their relevant hlb numbers. Would it not be possible to mix 15% water as oil in water emulsion. I use water to blend polymers.
That is correct, but not in terms of stability. Your system will not be stable with 42% oil and 15% water for an o/w emulsion, again, unless you are using stabilizers! Have a look for HIP (high internal phase) emulsions in the forum or google in general.
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Mr_Clean said:…
Oil and wax phase is 42%…
…ceteareth 25 at 4.5% and peg 7 glycerol cocoate at 9.5%…water at 15% and polymers, clays…Does that mean that polymers and clays make up 29%?Making stable HIPE gels using PEG based emulsifiers is in principle possible (the oldest publications on HIPEs I could find were done with ceteareth-like emulsifiers) and bears the advantage that you don’t have to bother with HLB.However, I do not know if your emulsifier combo will work but I can tell you for sure that your formulation will not work because of polymers and clay on one hand and too much water but no polyol on the other.Another approach would be the use of lecithin for a high oil content o/w emulsion (think mayonnaise). There are different emulsifiers available which can handle large quantities of oil but don’t ask me which ones, I don’t know that by heart.
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