dish wash liquid color changes with low temperature

Tagged: formulating, formulation, liquid-soap, preservative, preservatives

Formulating

dish wash liquid color changes with low temperature

Posted by haroon on September 22, 2018 at 6:38 pm

hi all

i have dish wash liquid .it work properly but it can change its color when the temperature become -3 or onward its color change like malik or become in-transparent .it contain the following ingredient.give some suggestion for color transparent and for long preservative life.

838 gm Water

sulphonic acid 85 gm

Lsles 20gm

caustic soda 11.30

27 gm CDEA

1 gm EDTAu

cocobutane 10gm

urea 5gm

DEA 1gm

Any piece of advice, suggestion or hint

Thanks

haroon replied 6 years ago 8 Members · 21 Replies
21 Replies

Gunther

Member
September 22, 2018 at 9:30 pm

What’s cocobutane and why is it there?
Why urea?

What’s DEA? The Drug Enforcement Agency?
Chemist77

Member
September 23, 2018 at 4:16 am

Haroon your ingredients are way off the chart. LABSA is 10%, SLES is 8-12, NaOH pure is 1-2% (depending on final pH) If needed, CDEA 1-2%, Cocamidopropylbetaine around 3%. Where is your preservative? Fragrance and finally sodium chloride to adjust the viscosity.
NEXT TIME POST YOUR FORMULA IN PERCENTAGE, else no one would give a hoot about what you posted.

Good luck
haroon

Member
September 23, 2018 at 3:43 pm

Chemist77 thank you for give us valuable suggestion. my ingredients in percentage are given below.but its color change
in low temperature and become in-transparent.

83.8 gm Water

sulphonic acid 8.5 gm

sles 2gm

caustic soda 1

2.7 gm CDEA

1 gm EDTAu

cocobutane 1gm

urea 0.5gm

DEA 1gm
DrAndrewWorthen

Member
September 25, 2018 at 2:30 am

Could this be cloud point behavior?
chemicalmatt

Member
September 26, 2018 at 3:23 pm

That’s what I was thinking, Dr. Worthen. By “color change” haroon, do you mean “milky” (“like malik” as stated) ? At -3C (25F) a lot of formulations will cloud.
haroon

Member
September 29, 2018 at 11:05 am

DrAndrewWorthen ,yes like cloud behavior in low temperature.
haroon

Member
September 29, 2018 at 11:08 am

chemicalmatt.yes you said correctly,color change like milky in low temp…
BILO

Member
September 29, 2018 at 12:17 pm

Good day to you.

Your LABSA percentage is 8.5% but the NAOH (caustic soda 50) percentage is just 1.13%….so your Sulphonic Acid (LABSA) is not neutralized fully, as the caustic soda percentage is low….leading to an acidic mixture where your dye (or colourant) can’t handle very low pH ( 3 to 4 pH acid).

So i suggest you increase the NaOH percentage to 2.26% that is 22.6 g in your 1 litre dishwash….reduce some water to balance up the percentages.

good luck and let me know if it solves the problem.
haroon

Member
September 29, 2018 at 1:39 pm

BILO ; thanks for your valuable replay,it have Ph is 6, but i do not understand about Sulphonic Acid (LABSA) is neutralized fully.how we know about its neutralization?
BILO

Member
September 29, 2018 at 2:03 pm

NaOH (strong alkaline) is used to neutralize the acidity of LABSA….after mixing LABSA and NaOH (caustic soda) measure the pH it shoul be neutral (around 7)…

Now later when you add the other ingredients the pH will change again….adjust your pH at the end of the mixing process….if it is alkaline (pH above 7) then add citric acid to bring pH down to 7….if it is acidic (pH beloe 7) then add moderate amount of NaOH.
Try it.
haroon

Member
September 29, 2018 at 3:21 pm

BILO;dear plz suggest step by step procedure mixing ingredient?
BILO

Member
September 30, 2018 at 7:43 am

water, formalin, EDTA, LABSA, NaOH, SLES, CDE, UREA, BETAINE, COLOUR, SCENT and SALT….and you are done.
Gunther

Member
September 30, 2018 at 6:35 pm

Formalin is a banned substance and a known carcinogen
a sure way to get yourself sued.
Switch to another preservative.
haroon

Member
September 30, 2018 at 6:47 pm

Gunther ;suggest the name of other good preservative?
OldPerry

Member
September 30, 2018 at 10:41 pm

DMDM Hydantoin
haroon

Member
October 1, 2018 at 4:05 am

Thank you Perry;how much % DMDM Hydantoin is required for dish wash liquid?
Gunther

Member
October 2, 2018 at 6:29 pm

@haroon if it keeps on clouding, you may wish to switch to Potassium hydroxide instead of Sodium hydroxide.
The former makes more soluble sulfonates.

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4804/should-i-dilute-sulfonic-acid-before-neutralizing-it-with-sodium-hydroxide
khoikhoa

Member
October 18, 2018 at 8:26 am

cloudy point is high i think you used too much sodium salt. you can adjust % sles to improve viscosity or add HPMC as a thickener agent
haroon

Member
November 11, 2018 at 7:13 pm

thanks khoikhoa,
HPMC means?
now the problams is that when temperture is become -ve then it cloud,after increasing temperture it slightly start clearance.
Gunther

Member
November 11, 2018 at 8:34 pm

haroon said:

thanks khoikhoa,
HPMC means?
now the problams is that when temperture is become -ve then it cloud,after increasing temperture it slightly start clearance.

That means solubility decreases, thus becoming cloudy, as temperature drops.

IMHO The first step is to replace Sodium Hydroxide with Potassium hydroxide to neutralize sulfonic acid
as Potassium salts are more soluble, thus less likely to cloud.
haroon

Member
November 12, 2018 at 4:04 pm

ok Gunther,
we will be trying for covering problems, and we will
follow your valuable suggestions.