Formulating

Natural Shampoo Thinning in Larger Batches

Posted by IGChemist on June 12, 2018 at 10:24 pm

Hi All! I’ve successfully made small batches of this natural shampoo with no problems. I usually hand mixed with a whisk. Once I scaled up to 450oz batches the product started thinning when bottled and separated leaving me with an oily liquid at the top and of course a normal looking blend at the bottom. Could someone review my formula and let me know if there is an obvious culprit? I’m wondering if I need to allow this to hydrate for 24 hours before I add in the surfactants. Or maybe its the high shear blending I did with the larger batch (below surface so no air bubble problems). Thanks!

Formula:

Distilled Water	74.62%
Ayurvedic Blend	3.15%
(Dried Indian Herbs)
Guar Hydro. Chloride	1.00%
Optiphen +	1.00%
Glycerin	2.00%
Shea Butter (Liq.)	1.00%
Glycol Stearate IP	2.00%
Polyglucoside	10.71%
Decyl Glucoside	4.02%
Frag: Amber Noir	0.50%
Citric Acid	0.00%

belassi replied 6 years, 7 months ago 5 Members · 10 Replies

10 Replies

belassi

Member
June 13, 2018 at 12:26 am

Sounds as if your surfactants are not sufficiently good emulsifiers.
IGChemist

Member
June 13, 2018 at 4:16 am

@Belassi what surfactant addition would you suggest? The cationic guar and the Glycol Stearate IP aren’t sufficient considering the low amount of oils? I did check to see what the hlb for the liquid shea butter would be and it’s an 8. The glycol stearate has an hlb capacity of 6. But once again I figured since I had such a low oil phase that I didn’t have to completely worriy about the hlb especially since I was mixing it with the cationic guar. Is it possible that I could just add more glycol stearate or do you think I should go add another secondary emulsifier to bring the hlb capacity up to 8 or more? I appreciate your’s and anyone else’s response. You can probably tell I’m somewhat attached to this formula. It has great results and sensory.
IGChemist

Member
June 13, 2018 at 4:38 am

I think I figured it out! I could possibly add a peg to the formula such as Peg-6 or peg-120 (both of which I have on hand). Or I can add a polysorbate 80 as a secondary surfactant. All of which have higher hlb. I guess I’ll have to test out these additions. Please let me know if anyone thinks I’m going down the wrong path.
belassi

Member
June 13, 2018 at 5:23 am

I would use ALES instead of the decyl glucoside. It’s an excellent emulsifier. Polysorbates suppress foam.
em88

Pharmacist
June 13, 2018 at 11:20 am

“Polysorbates suppress foam.”
Is it noticeable even for low concentrations like 2%?
Thank you
IGChemist

Member
June 14, 2018 at 3:53 am

Thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately anything with “sulfate” in the name will run our customers off. Even though we try to educate on the differences it’s still a non-starter from the beginning with our customer base. I think what may have happened is I subbed Shea Butter for the Shea Nut Oil and got the adverse reaction. I’m going to do comparisons between the two options and see if I get my original results before I need to change the surfactants. Thanks!
Gunther

Member
June 14, 2018 at 3:42 pm

Do MOST customers really know what sulfates are?
Or just the few, loud complainers?

Related: Most customers don’t know what Parabens are.
https://chemistscorner.com/do-consumers-think-about-parabens-in-cosmetics/

You can sell low-sulfate as ‘the best of both worlds’, ‘the fine balance between mildness and an underwashed, oily, SMELLY hair’, ‘you’ll get accustomed to a slightly smelly hair, but those around you will notice it’…
The ‘smelly’ word sells = fear marketing.
https://chemistscorner.com/5-reasons-sulfate-free-products-exist/

You can increase mildness by adding Cocamidopropyl Betaine to match total sulfates (limited to about 5% as to avoid excess viscosity), then add another surfactant to improve foaming a bit.
(NOT glucosides as they kill sulfates viscosity)
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/4338/any-ideas-for-making-liquid-soap-really-water-thin-so-its-suitable-for-foamer-bottles

Do consumers think about parabens in cosmetics?
belassi

Member
June 14, 2018 at 4:11 pm

Ah, smelly hair! One of our successful Facebook promotions centered on this.
DAS

Member
June 14, 2018 at 5:58 pm

@Gunther rarely a customer knows what they are buying. Mostly they are guided by the big companies making claims in comercials. Even when the natural and organic market is a growing niche, the “concerned and conscientized” are guided by what they read on a blog or magazines with no scientific backup.

I suspect some of the fearmongering news are instigated by the big monsters to shake the market.

Ontopic: 15% glucosides ain’t much?. Given the allergies issue they might cause I always considered it as a secondary surfactant, and never used it for the that reason.
belassi

Member
June 14, 2018 at 6:45 pm

If you want an excellent emulsifier but not a sulphate, you could try one of the Akypo products, eg. RLM45-CA. It’s 90% AS.