-
Stick Deodorant slip issues
Greetings.
Im here again trying to formulate something without enought ingredients, basically as the tittle says im experimenting trying to make a basic stick deodorant with aluminium clorohidroxide, i have 2 weeks playing with waxes proportions and passing through emulsification problems.
After all that i obtained a solid, well emulsified, non sticky, homogeneus deodorant stick Bar, but im having troubles trying to improve the slipness, the main problem is that silicones arent available in my country, so i will be very grateful if anyone can give me a tip for improve slipness without using silicones.
Current formula:
Water q.s.
alum chlorohidroxide 30% (50% solution)
Cetyl and/or stearyl alcohol 20-25%
Hidrogenated castor wax 5%-10%
Mineral oil 5%-10%
Stearic acid 0%-5%
glycolmonostearate - peg 100 stearate 2%-5%
metyl/propil parabenI tried ussing glycerin instead water but it doesnt seems to have a noticeable effect, tried making a w/o emulsion but i dont have emulsifiers capables of mantaining a stable emulsion with alum chlorohidroxide.
Basically im stuck, my options are very poor, dont know if ussing another wax or oil like palm oil could show a better performance
*Propylene glycol / sodium stearate sitck bar are not an option
-
23 Replies
-
Hola’, Luis. Try using 0.50% Cocamide DEA in there. That ought to do the trick. Kudos to you for getting this to hang together without cyclomethicone as the primary solvent. I’m still not sure how it is working, but there it is. Another trick is to limit your fatty alcohol to stearyl alcohol only - no cetyl or lauryl (often part of cetyl.)
-
Which product is this related to?
I ask because the formulation you show seems to be a hydrid of a”dry” ACH/fatty alcohol/volatile solvent stick mixed with an incompatible aqueous phase.
It is a few years since I wa involved with underarm products so I readily admit that I might be somewhat out of date but I really cannot see how a product like you are proposing can be feasible.
-
hola @chemicalmatt thanks you very much for the advises, i will try cocoamide MEA, DEA and soyamide dea and will post results, i read some days ago that you recomended DEA for boost the shine on a lipstick, didnt know that dea could help me too.
I made batches of pure stearyl and didnt recive a noticiable diference in comparation with cetyl in spreadability/slip terms, but i have seen that almost all deodorant formulas has only stearyl, im going to stick with the tendency.
Tomorrow im planing to play with isopropyl miristate and palmitate and amides
-
hi @johnb thanks for you reply, just to clarify, im not intending to improve or inovate something im just trying to make a regular stick deodorant ussing the raw materials available in my country.
I would be very happy to find cyclomethicone but it seems that only 12500cps dimeticone is available here so my current goal is to make my current stick more spreadable
-
The formula you give will never result in a stick product.
-
Hi @johnb , thanks for the feedback.
I have seen that almost all the stick deodorant formulations are similar, 10%-20% stearyl alcohol is always used for consistency, and cyclomethicone as primary solvent.
Btw, using the current formula im obtaining a very solid and homogeneous stick, spreading is the only problem that in need to solve without using silicones.
-
If the large manufacturers of this type of stick were able to obtain a marketable product in which water (very low cost) replaces cyclomethicone (very high cost) they would have done so by now.
-
try adding propylene glycol to the water phase; it’s got a lower viscosity and better lubricity than glycerine
try increasing the mineral oil too, it’ll make your oil phase more spreadable
-
@johnb i got your point and you are right, im not willing to make a better deodorant than speedstick or gillette, im just ttrying to make something kind of spreadable.
-
@Bill_Toge thanks you very much, i will try propyleneglycol, increasing mineral oil is a challenge because im too near to form a w/o emulsion, tomorrow i will try with 350cst dimethicone that i found today.
-
350cst dimethicone will not behave in the same manner as cyclomethicone.
One of the major points of using cyclomethicone is to have a component which acts as a slip agent (which is what you are looking for) and at the same time evaporate after application to give the “dry” effect. Using a non-volatile silicone or mineral oil may give the desired slip but it will also, most likely, give a persistent (and unesthetic) sticky residue - liable to cause staining of clothing.
-
@luiscuevasii what do you mean by “too near to form a w/o emulsion”?
your formula has PEG-100 stearate (HLB = 19) in it, it will never form a W/O emulsion!
-
You can get around the sticky residue problem by adding modified starch - something like Dry-Flo.
Also, you might want to look into adding high-slip water soluble polymers, if you can get them. Polymer JR, for example.
-
@johnb althought 350 dimethicone doesnt going to behave as well as cyclomethicone do you think that it could help to spreadability?, my other alternative is using 12500 cst dimethicone wicht isnt an option.
@bill_toge i mean that im current at 45%-55% oil in my current formula, adding aditional 5%-10% of oil could cause a desastibilization, i had problems adding too much oils s
-
@Bobzchemist thanks for your tips, i will try polymer JR-400 and will post results. Dry-flo isnt available here.
-
My view is that you should return to basics and compare the formulation you have with those of commercial products e.g
Speedstick Power:
Aluminum zirconium tetrachlorohydrex gly 16%, elaeis guineensis (palm)
kernel oil, stearyl alcohol, cyclomethicone, C12-15 akyl benzoate,
PPG-14 butyl ether, hydrogenated castor oil, hydrogenated soybean oil,
PEG-8 distearate, fragrance, behenyl alcohol.Right Guard Extreme:
Cyclomethicone, Stearyl Alcohol, Aluminum Zirconium Trichlorohydrex Gly,
PPG-14 Butyl Ether, Talc, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Myristyl Myristate,
Parfum, Cetyl Alcohol, Arachidyl Alcohol, LinaloolDove Antiperspirant Stick:
Cyclopentasiloxane, Aluminum Zirconium Tetrachlorohydrex GLY, Stearyl Alcohol, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, PPG-14 Butyl Ether, Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Parfum, Dimethicone, Polyethylene, Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil, Steareth-100, BHT, Tocopheryl Acetate, Citric Acid, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Benzoate, Benzyl Salicylate, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Citronellol, Geraniol, Hexyl Cinnamal, Hydroxycitronellal, Isoeugenol, Limonene, Linalool.
(Italicised are perfume components)Notable by its absence is water.
-
Thanks @johnb , answering to your ingredient list>
c12-c15 alkyl benzoate isnt available in my country
ppg 14 butyl ether isnt available
cyclomethicone isnt availableBasically im ussing the remaining ingredients (stearyl, alum salt, HCO) , and as i said, my current problem as almost all the post i made are due to the non availability of most basic ingredients needed in the cosmetc industry, and the reason for that is that tehr are not cosmetic laboratories or factories in my country, 99% of the cosmetic products in my country are imported from usa/china. There is no Basf, clariant, dow chemical, lubrizol among others arround here.
I do have access to some ingredients only because the oil industry shares some raw materials with cosmetic industry. So im not willing to make a perfect deodorant, i will be happy if it barely works.
-
Update>
@chemicalmatt , stearyl alcohol is working great, didnt notice any diference ussing cocamide dea, or MEA, or Soyamidemea, i will try those in a bigger batch.@bill_toge thanks, propyleneglycol is working great, was a huge diference compared with glycerin
@bobzchemist tried POLYMER jR 125 and 400, and got a very unexpected result, using from 0,5% to 1% the mix didnt solidified, got a very thick and sticky gel, but in the other hand the gel was very spreadable, i couldnt make batches ussing less than 0,5%, i will try 0,1% - 0,4% in a 10kg batch .
Current results (better spreadability) Changed Mineral oil up to 12% , removed water, added PPG instead, im still waiting for 350cst dimethicone and palm kernel oil to arrive, will comment results.
-
You are missing a fundamental point of my comment, above.
The commercial stick formulations I quoted are totally water free. They do not have added water and the ACH active is added as a dry powder. You will never achieve a formulation resembling a marketed product by proceeding along the path you are following.
The cyclomethicone/cyclopentasiloxane are volatile solvents and evaporate after application. It is not replaceable by dimethicones, except for very low molecular weight types such as hexamethyldisiloxane which is even less likely to be available in your country.
I know work has been done on substituting cyclomethicone with isoparaffin solvents but nothing reached the marketplace, as far as I know. Isoparaffins are marketed as Shellsol (Shell) and Isopar (Exxonmobil). As these are products of the oil industry, they may be available where you are.
-
i really apreciate your help @johnb , 8% - 10% of the formula is water because im using ACH 50% solution, cant remplace that, already asked to my supplier if they could make powder ACH and they cant, in fact they where supriced when i told i was using it for cosmetic aplications.
I have tried using shellsol in a degreaser formula like 2 years ago, i remember that the smell was very strong, i will see if i can find more shellsol.
-
Has anyone tried triclosan as anactive in a deodorant formula?, could i coupled it with ACH in order to reduce it and the water.
-
If you are unable to include solid ACH then, as I have previously stated, you have no chance of making a stick of the type you want.
From what you have said about your ACH supplier, I would be very concerned about their capabilities and knowledge.
Shellsol used to be called deodorised kerosine and shouldn’t smell significantly. It is available in several grades distinguished by the boiling range. Similarly with Isopar.
Triclosan is the subject of lots of investigations into its safety and is likely to be banned worldwide. I suggest you don’t look at it further.
-
@luiscuevasii sorry to resuscitate this but it’s very interesting how you managed to do a stable solid stick with such high amount of water in it ,specially considering your limitations on raw ingredients , I would like to know how it ended upwere you able to improve the slip? (6 years late but maybe adding ball-bearing powders would help)did you had the chance to evaluate stability was it stable at different temperatures and conditions?
Log in to reply.