-
Conditioner Formula Has Very Little Slip
I have a condition formula that I’m experimenting with that performs well with detangling and smoothing the hair, but has very little slip in and out of the shower. When used out of the shower it almost feels waxy on damp hair, but detangles very well. Are there any other film formers I can add for more slip? I thought of polyquat-10 and cationic guar, but the risk of build up is a concern to me. It’s a working basic formula right now that is geared toward dry and damaged hair (hence the keratin and bromide)Water 70.450
Cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed rice protein 0.500
Hydrolysed Keratin Protein 2.000
Silk Amino Acids 0.500Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol 5.000
Fatty organic Butter 0.250
Cetyl Alcohol 3.000
Cetrimonium Chloride 2.000
Light fatty Oil 0.500
Coconut Oil 5.500
Cetrimonium Bromide 5.000 (testing this ingredient out in this formula)Dimethicone 350cst 2.000
Cyclomethicone 2.000
Germall Plus 0.500
Fragrance 0.800Any help would be appreciated.Regards,CosChemFan -
7 Replies
-
Why are you using a 350cst Dimethicone? The lower viscosity dimethicones will give more slip and lubricity. 350cst is generally reserved for skin protectant properties, an OTC application.
-
@Microformulation Hi Mark. Yes, I remember you telling me that over the phone when we spoke last year. I lowered it from 1000 cst to the 350 cst. I have a 6 cst dimethicone on hand and will try that. I thought the 350 cst was low enough. I’ll test the 6 cst and report back. Thank you for commenting.
-
That’s a pretty complicated formula for a hair conditioner. You have multiple cationic surfactants which are just competing with each other for spots to stick on the hair. I don’t think you get any additional benefit from using Cetrimionium Chloride and Cetrimonium Bromide & the Behentrimonium Methosulfate.
It also seems like you have a high amount of solids in the formula. You can make a good conditioner with less than 20% solids.You could also cut back on the Coconut oil. 5% is a lot. 1% is probably enough. -
Agree with Perry - I wonder how you came to the conclusion to use 3 quats + 2 silicones in a conditioner?
-
@Perry Thank you for responding and giving me your feedback.The CTAC is the only ingredient I use for detangling and slip.typically.I decided to add CTAB to this particular version as an experiment out at a high percentage to see what it added to the formula. I actually started doing that because of your lessons!
CTAB is not normally in this formula, but since this version is for “dry and damaged” hair (CTAB supposedly has an affinity for damaged/perforated hair and enters the hair shaft) I added it to try it out. The only thing I noticed is it makes the formula foam a little at that percentage. Do you, Perry, believe in or have any knowledge of the additional properties of CTAB?The coconut oil at 5% was also an experiment. I usually keep it at 2% and the more expensive oils under .50%. Thank you again, Perry for that advice. I’ll make some revisions, try it again, and report back here.Regards,CosChemFan -
@David the silicone is a blend. Personally, I prefer the feel of dimethicone + cyclomethicone than to pure dimethicone or pure cyclomethicone. It’s not uncommon to see both in formulations already on the market nor is it uncommon to see multiple cationic quats. Look at an ingredient list for Ojon or Moroccan Oil for examples. I can’t speak to that necessarily being right or proper, but their customers sure are happy and their brands are considered “high-end”.However, this formula typically only uses CTAC and BTMS. CTAB was added for experimental purposes as I stated in my original post.
-
I think the reason that it foams is because of the high level. If you put a high level of CTAC you would also get foam. When I worked on the VO5 Hot Oil formula it used a high level (6%) of CTAC and foamed a bit. You could probably drop the CTAC out of the formula if you are going to use CTAB. And try it at a lower level (like 3%)
Log in to reply.