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Questions About a Basic Shampoo
Hello everyone! I’m going to be making a shampoo for my personal use only. I’ve already purchased and am in possession of most of the ingredients and supplies needed. I will be making a 1 kg batch that should last me several months. I have some questions I would like to ask first, if that’s okay. Here is the formula I’ve come up with.
Water 51%
Decyl Glucoside 30%
Coco Glucoside 15%
Propanediol 5%
Glycine Betaine (Beet) Sugar Extract 5%
Polyaminopropyl Biguanide 1.5%
Isopropyl Alcohol (99%) 1.5%
Glucono Delta Lactone 1%
Sodium Citrate 1%
Climbazole 0.5%
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose 0.5%
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin 0.5%
Potassium Sorbate 0.5%
Citric Acid (40% aq) q.s1) I’m using the Glucono Delta Lactone by itself and not the Gluconolactone/Sodium Benzoate preservative. Don’t worry, I’m well aware that GDL is not a preservative on its own. I’m including it to enhance my two preservatives, which are Polyaminopropyl Biguanide and Potassium Sorbate. Is it true that GDL will stabilize Potassium Sorbate against discoloration, as claimed in the patent below? If I store some of my shampoo away in a separate bottle somewhere and check on it in a year, should I expect it to have turned brown in that time? Even with the GDL included?
http://www.google.com/patents/US2866817
2) A document from The Herbarie states that “HEC will not effectively thicken surfactant based systems as it will eventually thin out.” Is there any truth to that statement? The HEC I purchased from them has a viscosity of 4800-6000 cPs for a 2% solution. It seems to be Dow CELLOSIZE QP 4400H. According to the Dow Answer Center, “Solutions are less stable below pH 5 because of hydrolysis.” I’m going to lower the pH of my shampoo to around 4.7. Also, I obviously have a high level of APGs in this formula. I cannot add Xanthan Gum because it is incompatible with Polyaminopropyl Biguanide, which is cationic. Do you recommend increasing the amount of HEC in this formula? Should I expect my shampoo to become thinner over time or should it remain thick?
http://dowac.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2107/~/cellosize-formulating-facts-and-tips
3) Glucono Delta Lactone can cause a pH drift downwards, so I would like to use a buffer to keep the pH around 4.7. Since I’m adding Citric Acid at the end to bring down the pH, is the inclusion of Sodium Citrate in the formula all that is needed for the buffer?
4) I would like this shampoo to be green, so I’m using Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin as a colorant. Again, this is for my personal use only. Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin is a sodium salt, which makes it anionic, correct? Should I expect a problem using it with my cationic preservative, Polyaminopropyl Biguanide?
My apologies for the lengthy post! I greatly appreciate any help you can provide. I will definitely let you know how the shampoo turns out. Thank you again!
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28 Replies
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1. The potassium sorbate at 0.5% alone is quite sufficient, adding other preservatives is a waste of money and time.
2. I have had allergic reactions to shampoo containing as little as 1% glucosides and have also had reports from two customers, and I have removed glucosides from our designs as a result.3. Isopropyl alcohol? Why? Likely to kill foam I would think. -
Hi Belassi!
Yes, I’m definitely going to include potassium sorbate at 0.5% for yeasts and molds. However, I wasn’t sure that it had enough activity against bacteria? Also, have you had any luck in preventing or minimizing the discoloration?
Actually, the glucosides seem to be the only surfactants I don’t react to. Shampoos with SLS, SLeS, SCI, or sulfosuccinates all seem to exacerbate my scalp itching. Here are the inactive ingredients in ketoconazole 2% shampoo:
coconut fatty acid diethanolamide, disodium monolauryl ether
sulfosuccinate, F.D.&C. Red No. 40, hydrochloric acid, imidurea,
laurdimonium hydrolyzed animal collagen, macrogol 120 methyl glucose
dioleate, perfume bouquet, sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, sodium
lauryl ether sulfate, and purified waterThat’s a prescription shampoo that makes my scalp terribly itchy. The only commercial shampoo I’ve been able to tolerate so far is Tom’s of Maine Baby Shampoo and Wash Fragrance Free. When I look at the ingredients, I don’t see a preservative, though. Here they are:
Water, Decyl Glucoside, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Citric Acid
http://www.tomsofmaine.com/product-details/baby-shampoo-washI was actually going to include Sodium Gluconate in my shampoo formula as a chelating agent but then I read this:
“The outstanding property of sodium gluconate is its excellent chelating
power, especially in alkaline and concentrated alkaline solutions.”
http://www.jungbunzlauer.com/en/products/gluconates/sodium-gluconate.htmlSo would Sodium Gluconate still be useful as a chelating agent in an acidic shampoo? I’d rather not use EDTA for environmental reasons.
Sorry, I forgot to mention the purpose of the isopropyl alcohol! It’s a solvent for the climbazole, which I’m using for its activity against Malassezia. This species of yeast has been implicated in seborrheic dermatitis. Will even just 1.5% IPA kill my foam?
Thanks for your reply, Belassi. I look forward to learning more from you.
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I have only seen discoloration with potassium sorbate when the product is very old and oxidised. In practice the shelf life is at least 3 months. If that isn’t adequate for you, sodium benzoate is just as effective and not subject to discolor, as far as I am aware.
Oh I see why the isopropyl alcohol. You will just have to experiment and see. I use Tea Tree Oil 0.2% in my own shampoo against the same yeast. -
I see! I have read in some of your other posts that you use Glucamate VLT for thickening, which I of course don’t have access to. Do you think a shampoo thickened with HEC will eventually thin out? You’re right, I’ll just need to experiment with all of this.
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Greetings
I have been ussing hec ,cmc and xanthan gum in decyl/coco glucósidos shampoo for a while and im not having any troubletroubes
Also im ussing sodium benzoate / potasium sorbate and they worl very well for at least 5montmonths. -
Thanks, luiscuevasii. That’s good to know.
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Just a bit of advice, if you have an issue with a scalp condition and sensitivity to most surfactants … follow a minamilist approach. I would take a close look at your formulation and ask yourself this question about each and every ingredient: Why is this ingredient in my formulation and do I really need it?For instance, the Glycine Betaine Extract at 5% is going to make your shampoo a sticky mess. Why include it? Does your personal use shampoo really need to be green?There’s a reason that the Tom’s Of Maine is the only commercial shampoo you can tolerate … It is designed on a minimalist philosophy:The only commercial shampoo I’ve been able to tolerate so far is Tom’s of Maine Baby Shampoo and Wash Fragrance Free. When I look at the ingredients, I don’t see a preservative, though. Here they are:
Toms Of Maine Ingredients: Water, Decyl Glucoside, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Citric AcidThe “preservative” in this formulation is the combination of Lactic Acid, Citric Acid and Sodium Gluconate … in effect, they’re using low pH as the preservative. A bit risky, but apparently it works.In your formulation, you’ve included 1,3-Propanediol which is a good preservative booster. Since you’re adding Gluconolacctone, why not just use Gluconolactone/Sodium Benzoate as your preservative instead of then separately adding Potassium Sorbate? You could simplify your formulation some and achieve your objectives at the same time. -
I agree with the minimalist approach.
Also, because this is for your personal use, why not store most of it in the refrigerator to prolong its life? As cosmetic chemists, we formulate for room temperature storage because we have to, not because storing that way is better.The use level for sodium copper chlorophyllin to tint shampoo is about 0.01 - 0.03%. At those low levels, don’t worry about its ionic character. -
@MarkBroussard and @Bobzchemist,
Thank you both for your excellent advice!
I was going to include Glycine Betaine Extract in my shampoo because I read in this document that it would improve foam texture as well as increase the moisture content in my hair.
http://www.in-cosmetics.com/__novadocuments/7930My hair is quite dry so these benefits were appealing to me. However, if the Glycine Betaine is going to make the shampoo as sticky as you say, I’m going to leave it out. Stickiness would be unacceptable. I only have 4 ounces of Glycine Betaine on its way to me so it’s not a big deal if I need to leave it out. Just 5% will really make it sticky? If I omit the Betaine, maybe I can increase the 1,3-Propanediol? How much of the 1,3-Propanediol can I use without compromising foam?
I also realize Isopropyl Alcohol may reduce foam as well but it’s necessary to dissolve climbazole, which is essential in this shampoo. Do you think I might be able to dissolve climbazole in the 1,3-Propanediol or surfactants, instead? If so, I could eliminate the IPA.
I suspect I have a sensitivity to Sodium Benzoate so I hadn’t considered using that preservative. Thankfully, Potassium Sorbate has never bothered me. I’ve tolerated it well even in facial cleansers. This is why I decided on the combination of Potassium Sorbate and Polyaminopropyl Biguanide. I felt it was a broad-spectrum combination that would still be “gentle” enough for my sensitive scalp. I did, however, purchase some Optiphen Plus just in case I would need a different preservative for some reason. I’m okay with Phenoxyethanol as an alternative because I’m not sure it irritates my skin. Parabens don’t bother me either but I know they can’t be used in this shampoo since the glucosides are nonionic.
Today I realized the irony of excluding EDTA for environmental reasons while still including Climbazole! I’ll order some Disodium EDTA and add 0.2% to the formula. I purchased Sodium Gluconate with my other ingredients but EDTA is a superior chelating agent, correct?
Since I’m already using 0.5% Climbazole anyway, can Potassium Sorbate be eliminated altogether? Climbazole should provide the same protection against other yeasts and molds, correct?
Is it still worth it to include Gluconolactone in the formula? If you recommend keeping it, I will. Otherwise, I’ll take it out because of the pH drift.
The green color is certainly nonessential but it’s something I want to add simply because it makes me happy. I purchased 10 grams and it sounds like this quantity will last quite a while if only 0.03% is needed. CI 75810 (Chlorophyllin) was used to tint the product on this page:
http://www.ouresme.com/liquid-hand-wash-aloe-vera-tea-tree/So 0.03% is enough to achieve that same tint?
Refrigeration is a great suggestion! It’s just that I share a refrigerator with a few other people and until that changes, I’d prefer to store my personal care items in a clean cabinet. It’s also a little more convenient.
So, here is my revised formula:
Water 46.27%
Decyl Glucoside 30%
Coco Glucoside 15%
Propanediol 6%
Polyaminopropyl Biguanide 1.5%
Climbazole 0.5%
Hydroxyethyl Cellulose 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin 0.03%
Citric Acid (40% aq) q.sTo summarize my remaining questions:
1) Can I solubilize Climbazole in 1.3-Propanediol or my surfactants? I realize heat will be needed.
2) Should I use more than 0.5% HEC to thicken? Will there be a reduction in viscosity over time?
3) Are there good reasons to include Gluconolactone or Sodium Gluconate?
4) 0.03% Chlorophyllin is the most that I would need for a lime green tint?I hope I haven’t annoyed you. I promise that isn’t my intent. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge and advice with me! I greatly appreciate it!
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1.5% isopropanol in shampoo won’t reduce foam once it’s diluted in use, but it may be of slight help killing the foam while you’re mixing the ingredients, which is a good thing; probably not enough to help w that, though. Plenty of liquid shampoos, including tincture of green soap, used to have a lot more alcohol than that, although the foam-depressing effect of isopropyl is a little greater than of ethyl.
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0.03% of powdered Chlorophyllin will make a very dark green. The sample you point to probably has a tenth of that. Chlorophyllin is also good bug food, and easy to contaminate. Make a 1% solution in 50% aq. ethanol, and it will keep more or less forever. Add it dropwise to your shampoo until you get the right color - no need to weigh it.
As for the HEC? Try it and see. Experimenting is fun. -
@Bobzchemist and @RobertG,
Thank you for your replies! I did some experimenting several weeks ago after receiving my ingredients. I felt very silly after using 0.05% of the Chlorophyllin powder, which produced a very dark green, just as you said, Bob! I will definitely keep your suggestion in mind. Do you think it will be okay for me to store the dry powder in a clean jar? I’ll just throw a tiny amount in when making my shampoo.
I tried dissolving Climbazole in Propanediol, which I poured into a beaker and heated in a warm water bath. It dissolved very easily! So, the isopropanol won’t even be necessary. I just hope this is genuine Climbazole I’m working with. I purchase it on eBay here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-7-Pure-CLIMBAZOLE-Powder-Crystals-Cosmetic-Grade-Lab-Chemical-Preservative-/161831116554Climbazole is available from AK Scientific at very affordable prices. I’m worried they might not sell it to me, though, since I’m just a private individual and not a business.
http://aksci.com/item_detail.php?cat=F670I’ll definitely experiment with my HEC but I decided to try Xanthan Gum first. I purchased some Keltrol CG-SFT from Lotioncrafter and used 1%. Once the Climbazole had dissolved, I dispersed the Xanthan Gum in the Propanediol, which I then added to the water. I then used my stick blender to hydrate it very easily. 1% Xanthan resulted in a shampoo that was a little too thin for my liking. I’m going to try using 2% Xanthan next. Would 3% be too much? I want to try using Xanthan alone instead of in combination with HEC for right now.
I will be trying the combination of Decyl and Coco Glucosides next but I first tried using 25% of the Decyl Glucoside/Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate blend. I won’t be using it again in a shampoo. It produced more lather than I needed but still didn’t leave my hair feeling clean enough. The Tom’s of Maine shampoo cleanses my scalp and hair well and Decyl Glucoside is the only surfactant in that product. I think the Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate in that blend was the problem. I am using up the result of my first experiment as a body wash and it works fine for that.
I purchased some Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin from overseas. I will use 1% of this preservative in my shampoo. The glucosides will not interfere with Phenoxyethanol at all since they are not ethoxylated?
So, here is my next formula:
Water 74.3%
Decyl Glucoside 10%
Propanediol 6%
Coco Glucoside 5%
Xanthan Gum 2%
Xylitol 1%
Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin 1%
Climbazole 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid q.s.
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin q.s. -
personally I’ve never had a problem with HEC thinning over time, except in peroxide cream
also: if you want a thicker product, you can also reduce the level of surfactant rather than increase the level of thickener, since surfactants compete with polymeric thickeners for solvation in water and reduce their efficiency as thickeners
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@Bill_Toge, thanks for sharing that info with me! The surfactant level in my first experiment was 25%. I’m going to try a total of 15% this time. This will leave me with a little less than 8% on an actives basis, though.
I may still try using 2% Xanthan Gum just to see how it turns out.
@Bobzchemist, I really like your suggestion of making a 1% solution of the Chlorophyllin. Will it be okay if I use some of my 1,3-Propanediol instead of ethanol? If so, I’ll just make up 30ml of a 1% solution that can be stored in a glass bottle.
Thanks again for your help, everyone!
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Is the Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin blend perfectly fine to use in non-ethoxylated surfactant systems? Will it suffer reduced efficacy in a shampoo consisting of 15-20% alkyl polyglucosides and 70-75% water? I am going to solubilize the preservative in 1,3-Propanediol before adding it to the water.
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In my opinion that preservative will adversely impact foam. I find sodium benzoate perfectly effective.
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@TLNCJM it’ll probably work, but there are plenty of other preservatives that are cheaper, more soluble and will work better in this particular system
isothiazolinones or DMDM hydantoin are usually the most efficient broad-spectrum options for shampoos, though as @Belassi says, sodium benzoate works well if you can get the pH below 5
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The ethanol is there to kill microbes. Chlorophyllin can become extremely contaminated just by breathing on it, it’s that good of a growth medium. Making a 1% anhydrous solution in Zemea would probably eliminate microbial growth also, but it might not kill the microbes/spores if the powder is already contaminated. If I was doing it for me, I’d use the ethanol. Since this is just for your personal use, it’s your call.
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Thanks, @Belassi and @Bill_Toge. I suspect that I have a sensitivity to Sodium Benzoate, DMDM Hydantoin, and the Isothiazolinones, among others. I have never been bothered by products preserved with Phenoxyethanol, even on my face. I have used Paula’s Choice Earth Sourced Cleansing Gel for a long time, which I just realized is preserved with Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, and Potassium Sorbate. This makes me a little more confident about using it in a shampoo.
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Earth+Sourced+Perfectly+Natural+Cleansing+Gel_54610.htmDuring my first experiment, after adding Potassium Sorbate to the water, I used my stick blender to make sure it was dissolved. Upon doing so, the water began to fizz in the same way that soda does when poured into a glass. It took a while for the water to become clear again. Was this normal? I’m thinking I can get by without Potassium Sorbate anyway since I have 0.5% Climbazole.
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Thanks, @Bobzchemist!
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I want to thank everyone who offered me their guidance.
This forum is a valuable resource I’m so thankful to have available.
Here is the shampoo formula I ended up with:Water 70.8%
Coco Glucoside 15%
Propanediol 10.5%
Xanthan Gum 2%
Climbazole 1%
Phenoxyethanol/EHG 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid Q.S.
Sodium Copper Chlorophyllin Q.S.
I leave this shampoo on my scalp for several minutes before rinsing. It has dramatically reduced the itching of my scalp, which is a wonderful feeling! Having said that, this formula leaves my hair feeling a little too dry. So, I purchased some new ingredients to try. Here is the next formula I came up with:
Water 72.5%
Sodium Cocoyl Apple Amino Acids 10%
Propanediol 10%
Sodium Cocoamphoacetate 5%
Climbazole 1%
Sclerotium Gum 0.8%
Phenoxyethanol/Ethylhexylglycerin 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Citric Acid Q.S.Here is a picture of my second shampoo, thickened with Sclerotium Gum:
After that, I made a conditioner with Incroquat Behenyl TMS-50. Making the emulsion went smoothly! Unfortunately, it wasn’t a good conditioner for me because the BTMS-50 seems to irritate my scalp. So, I am excited about trying a completely different formula. I will start a new thread about that.
In the short time I’ve been formulating for myself, I’ve accumulated so many ingredients! That is totally fine because I’m having a lot of fun making these products.
Thanks again!
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Try 1% colloidal oatmeal powder.
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Thanks for the suggestion, Belassi!
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Toms Of Maine Ingredients: Water, Decyl Glucoside, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Gluconate, Sodium Lactate, Lactic Acid, Citric Acid
Nice^^
Similar and same principle re: gentle cleansing without stripping
Water 59.2
Decyl glucoside 10
Coco betaine 25
Glycerin 3
Chitosan 1
Lactic Acid 1
Pot sorb 0.3
Sodium benzoate 0.3
Tetra EDTA 0.2Chitosan is one of the ‘natural’ cationic thickeners with some very interesting properties for soothing the scalp as well as reducing / eliminating dandruff. Wella used to use it, but not sure if they still do.
I can’t use SLS. Itching is unbearable. -
Thanks for the great comment, @DragoN!
I agree with you completely about SLS. I’ve found that Cocamidopropyl Betaine, even in formulas without SLS or SLES, makes my scalp itch as well. So CAPB is another one I avoid.
It’s funny you mention chitosan! Several months ago I came across the below article on chitosan oligosaccharides.
In Vitro Antimicrobial and Antioxidant Activities of Chitosan OligosaccharidesAfter learning that COSs have activity against Malassezia, I purchased 25 grams of this powder.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-quality-CHITOSAN-Oligosaccharide-Water-Soluble-Powder-25g-food-grade-/291546346329I still haven’t opened it because I was trying to decide on a formulation. I like this one:
Water 77.3%
Coco Glucoside 10%
Propanediol 7.5%
Chitosan Oligosaccharide 2%
Climbazole 2%
Sclerotium Gum 0.5%
Phenoxyethanol/EHG 0.5%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
Lactic Acid Q.S.I purchased the Sclerotium Gum to use as a non-ionic thickener when I couldn’t get HEC to work in a glucoside shampoo. I had a much easier time using HEC to stabilize a lotion. I just dispersed the HEC into the hot oils and stirred before combining my two phases.
I have found Xanthan Gum the easiest to work with in a shampoo but it’s obviously incompatible with the cationic chitosan oligosaccharide.
By the way, the most recent shampoo I made with Sodium Cocoyl Apple Amino Acids and Sodium Cocoamphoacetate is making my scalp itch. I am rejecting those surfactants. I’m going to try a combination of Coco Glucoside and the anionic Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate in another shampoo formula. I purchased some SLL from Ingredients To Die For and I really like how it smells.
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