CARBOMER problems formulating shampoo

Formulating

CARBOMER problems formulating shampoo

Posted by luiscuevasii on April 9, 2015 at 9:15 pm

Greetings, and thanks all for your help.

Im having problems when adding Sodium lauryl sulphate to a gel made with neutralized carbopol, when i add a little of sls the gel lose the thickness, i dont have a Phmeter and i want to know if the problem is that im getting a over neutralized solution and if i can use citric acid to get the correct ph.

Thanks.

NVaughn replied 10 years ago 5 Members · 12 Replies
12 Replies

Chemist77

Member
April 10, 2015 at 2:19 am

Did u study the literature of carbomer to see if it is compatible with strong surfactants nd electrolytes??? And which grade of carbomer have u used??? And what product are you trying to formulate?? Is there a sodium chloride free claim??? Try using HECs or HPMCs, they behave well with surfactants. You can use highly ethoxylated distearate salt or there is a huge range of thickeners from Evonik/Croda/Lubrizol.
luiscuevasii

Member
April 10, 2015 at 2:41 am

Thanks chemist for your answer, first I must admit that I’m not a chemist and I know almost nothing about cosmetics, I’m trying to make a sodium chloride free shampoo, using mainly sls, i think that I’m using carbopol 940, but I can’t confirm. I’d read some lubrizol formulas that Includes carbopol 940 and sls but I can’t make they get thick. Am I doing something wrong?

Can I use carboximetilcelulose instead hec?, I think that Cmc drops the Foam, and what is hpmc?
Chemist77

Member
April 10, 2015 at 2:50 am

Hydroxypropylmethyl Cellulose, try PEG-150 distearate but since its a solid it has to be hot process
Bill_Toge

Professional Chemist / Formulator
April 10, 2015 at 9:01 am

ionic surfactants like SLS will thin all types of polymer gel, not just carbomers

some carbomers are much more tolerant of surfactants than others; Carbopol Ultrez 20 and Ultrez 21 are much better suited to this type of product than Carbopol 940
Chemist77

Member
April 10, 2015 at 10:22 am

@Bill_Toge I have used cellosize and methocels with ethoxylated ones and have found them OK. Do you mean the nonethoxylated ones would completely thin down these cellulosics????
Bill_Toge

Professional Chemist / Formulator
April 10, 2015 at 1:03 pm

@Chemist77 in my experience, any freely water-soluble surfactant will thin a polymer gel to some extent; it’s just a question of how much

cellulosics are perfectly usable, they just don’t generate as much viscosity as they would without a surfactant present
Chemist77

Member
April 10, 2015 at 3:47 pm

@Bill_Toge yeah thats a given, interference of surfactants with gel network.
belassi

Member
April 11, 2015 at 2:12 am

940 is useless with anionic surfactants.
Chemist77

Member
April 11, 2015 at 2:15 am

@Belassi Long time, everything fine with u????
940 is useless with cationics nd anionics both, limited application preferably gels nd regular creams nd lotions.
belassi

Member
April 11, 2015 at 3:41 am

@chemist77: thanks. Been on holiday, completely off-grid in Copper Canyon. Became altitude-sick, had to change plans mid holiday and descended to Batopilas on the canyon floor, an 1800m descent.

Anyway.

I have brought something amusing back. An, well, I guess it is an “unguent”. A petrolatum based pomade, definitely local, claiming to be a “peyote” all-purpose balm. It smells strongly of methyl salicylate. It does have an LOI which I shall be posting in its own topic for the amusement and entertainment of the forum members.
Chemist77

Member
April 11, 2015 at 5:37 am

@Belassi good to know that u had a break n icing on the cake that u hv brought some local stuff and who knows with word of mouth it may become famous with us here on forum as well.
NVaughn

Member
April 11, 2015 at 8:20 am

Carbomer again, eh? Thanks for all the comments on the other thread. I’ve played around with the sodium carbomer and hope to find time this w/e to try 940. I had some very nice results with non ionic emulsifiers and even with Rita/Eco/NutraMulse.
Luiscuevasil-your question helped me understand carbomer vs cellulose, esp trying to build viscosity in a surfactant. Thanks for that. Hope yours worked out.
@Belassi - peyote balm!? LOL