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What do you do when your formulation consultant takes your money and stops contacting you?
I hired a chemist the end of last year. We did a non-disclosure agreement as well as a contract. This chemist was paid half of the fee I was quoted in November and it was agreed upon that I would pay the other half within sixty days.
I was given a timeline of an estimate of about eight weeks. Thus far we have spoken three to four times via the phone. I did not contact this person during the holiday season out of respect, but in January sent two emails with no response. When I called I was told that the holidays held up the ingredients ordered. I understood, but made it clear that the lack of communication made me a bit uncomfortable. I was promised samples in January when I made the first call. I was promised follow-up emails to let me know where things stand every Friday (that was on 2/9). Since then I have not received any follow-up emails. I was promised sample again five weeks ago then an email saying they would go out early March and I would receive a tracking number. I sent an email at the end if that week requesting the tracking number. The response was one sentence saying “I have the stomach flu”. Mind you when I sent an extensive email about the lack of follow-up and samples I was told that this person had the flu.
I have already paid a this chemists fee in full which is a few thousand dollars. All my attempts via email and phone calls have been ignored. Any feedback you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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46 Replies
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I hate to say it, but you need to get a lawyer involved. This shouldn’t cost a great deal of money, since all you’ll need to start with is a consultation and then a simple letter from the lawyer asking if the consultant intends to uphold his end of the contract or not. This should be enough to scare the chemist into at least contacting you. A few thousand dollars is too small an amount to justify a lawsuit using a lawyer, though.
The other alternatives are either filing your own lawsuit in small claims court, and/or public shaming, on this forum, LinkedIn, etc.For future reference, it’s best (in my experience) to pay for results - i.e., a third of the amount initially, a third for samples, a third for the final formula, etc. -
This is terrible! A few days ago I heard a very similar story from someone on another forum. She had someone claiming to be a cosmetic chemist steal $2500 from her last fall. I wonder if it was the same person? Her “chemist” is in the southeastern part of the US.
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This can be a very tricky situation to navigate. Reputations are involved, both yours and the consultants. Having this devolve into a public “he said/she said” argument will do damage to both sides.
Ideally, this could be fixed without lawyers involved, but once you start talking about contracts and NDA’s, your best bet will be to use a lawyer and/or an arbitrator to resolve things privately. -
If you paid with a credit card you could always file a chargeback. You will have to state that goods (formulation prototypes) were not received. Otherwise if you say it was a ‘service’ related dispute the credit cards won’t get involved.
Otherwise you’ll have to go to small claims court in their home state if you want a shot at recovering the money. I’d say trying to ‘mediate’ is just a waste of time at this point if the person isn’t returning your calls. You need to shake them up and get their attention. -
@Bobzchemist - I’ll endeavor to moderate things so it doesn’t devolve into something unhelpful but I think this is a very important question / discussion topic.
Many people who are on this forum or visit our website are looking for consultants with which to work. I’m happy to make connections between chemists and people looking for their help but it’s highly troubling to hear that someone might be taking advantage of people.I have been contacted by a number of consultants who say they are available for work, but I have no way of knowing whether they are reputable or not. I just assume everyone is until I hear otherwise. Even then I give people the benefit of the doubt. But I feel terrible if someone I’ve recommended would treat someone the way described in the starting message.So what can be learned from this?1. Buyer beware.2. Don’t pay all the money until you get the job done.It would be interesting to hear from someone on the other side.What would be the rationale for a contracted chemist to avoid responding to a client? -
Inspire78,
This same thing happened to me and I believe we have both been scammed by the same person. I have not heard from him in 6 weeks and paid the balance for my prototypes in January, at which time he said they would ship in 7-10 days. He even used the same “stomach flu” excuse with me in the beginning of March, but that is the only contact I have had with him since mid-February. He has not returned any emails or calls for six weeks.Would be great if we could talk. I am getting my attorney involved and am about to report him for fraud and theft. -
@Perry, I know that we are only getting one side of this story. Personally, I have both been burned by clients refusing to pay after work has been delivered to them, but also by consultants who refused to adequately complete the work that they had already been paid for.
The closest I can come to a rationale this for situation, in my experience, is a client who determined, several months after her project had been completed, that the product I formulated was not stable enough long-term. Since long-term stability had not been specified in her project request, and since I couldn’t afford to re-do the entire project (as she insisted I do), I had no choice, from a business standpoint, but to tell her that she had already paid for and received a project result that matched what she’d asked for, and that I was no longer interested in doing business with her. In this situation, I’d been paid by the hour, rather than by the project, and I had a signed statement that the end product was satisfactory, so I wasn’t too worried. She didn’t persist in trying to contact me, but if she had, I would have stopped communicating at some point.My strong suggestions, both for consultants and for customers, are to make completely sure that every possible outcome is spelled out in an agreement between the client and the consultant, and then to make sure that work gets paid for as it is done. By breaking the payment, and the work involved, down into smaller chunks, both the client and the consultant have less at risk. I would also suggest that if a consultant is too busy to return emails or phone calls, you have probably chosen the wrong consultant, unless you have unlimited patience. The downside to choosing an always-helpful, always-responsive consultant is that they charge more, sometimes much more.It’s a similar situation to what you would face if you were remodeling a house. Do you pay for the work upfront? Then what do you do if the work isn’t up to your expectations? But then, on the other hand, what do you do if the contractor says that you are being too picky and refuses to work with you anymore? Most contractors, like most consultants, are continually juggling multiple clients and multiple projects - it’s not always easy to find the right balance. -
Thanks for the thorough and well-thought out response Bob.
I agree with you that the best suggestion is to make sure everyone knows what is going to be delivered upfront so there are no surprises. There should always be some way “out” of the deal too.I tend to think that in most cases the chemist/consultant has the responsibility to make sure their customer is happy (if they can). Putting yourself in a situation of being called a fraud and leaving a trail of unsatisfied customers in your past is a terrible way to build a business. -
Curious:Did you contact client references for this consultant as part of your due diligence prior to signing a contract with him/her?Is the “chemist” resident in the same state in which you live or is this an interstate business transaction or even an out-of-country transaction?Not to pry, but is the amount of money involved greater than or less than $10,000? -
I’m almost certain I was defrauded by the same “cosmetic chemist”.
Picture of him in a lab coat, impressive fabricated credentials, posts regularly on numerousskin care formulating groups, blogs etc. Takes your money and delivers no formulas anddoes not respond to countless emails and phone calls. He preys on small scale formulators and skincare entrepreneurs. I would welcome an opportunity to speak with anyone who has been a victim of this fraud -
Sorry this has happened to you. I hope you can at least get some of your money back.
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This is terrible. That’s probably three people already just on this forum. I suggest you all compare data such as email addresses, etc. to see if you can locate this person. And I also suggest that you all contact the relevant police department because it is fraud.
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If the accused is someone who has posted on this forum it would seem appropriate to post his username. Also, one of those accusing him mentioned that he had posted elsewhere. Those other sites should be listed along with his website or wherever he posted his photo. .
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@perspicacious - I don’t see posting the accused’s username as appropriate given the limited information about the situation.
Also, this post isn’t so much directed at a single person or situation, but is more helpful to the community and people who might face a similar problem in the future. The original poster was looking for advice on what to do, not looking to punish someone who they think treated them poorly. -
@Perry, I agree completely about not posting usernames, either on this or on any other location.
This sort of dispute is best handled privately. Many of the accusations made in this discussion are very disturbing, and could be called defamatory, or even libelous, if they are the least bit exagerated. Additionally, we are only getting one side of the story, and I know that any business can have disgruntled customers.I will point out that, for anyone pursuing legal action, making public complaints and accusations will hurt your legal case - they can be used as evidence against you as proof that you are maliciously trying to harm the consultant’s business, rather than striving for an appropriate resolution to your dispute.Unfortunately, we don’t have a reputation recording system in the cosmetic industry the way that Ebay does. Come to think of it, it might be wise for low-dollar contracts like these to go through Ebay, which already has guarantees and an official dispute resolution process. -
Hi
I can assure you as far as my case is concerned nothing is exaggerated or false and I would welcome an opportunity to meet this person in a court of law if he were ever to accuse me of libel or slander. I have the NDA, contract, emails, and cashed check to verify my story. I also contacted two professional organization to see if he was a member as he claimed to be. They both confirmed he was not a member or associated with them. I have those emails as well. And of course I have no formulas. Every effort was made to find an appropriate resolution short of legal action. As I live in another state and the sum of money is less than 5K a lawsuit and recovering a judgement would likely be in vain. It is very difficult to find a resolution when the individual does not return phone calls and emails. This individual on preys on small scale formulators and skin care entrepreneurs and uses sites like this to legitimize themselves. My intention in posting this is save other people from being defrauded like I was.Lily88 -
Lily88…although I started this thread of discussion everything you said I agree with as that is where I am. At this point I have found a few other complaints outside of this site regarding this person that existed way before my interaction with said person. It may be hearsay to others, but when several people have been treated in the same manner with no resolution there is a problem that exists.
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I contacted certain individuals privately about his person and my experience many months ago. And frankly I’m distressed that there are people who continue to try to dismiss, minimize or explain away these allegations.
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@Lily88, I am not trying to “dismiss, minimize or explain away these allegations”. I am trying to make this a general discussion, as @Perry requested.
While I sympathize with people’s feelings of being misled and ripped-off, as a general issue, I don’t think it’s fair to make accusations when the other party is not presenting their side.I do think that both sides of these kind of issues are potentially able to harm the other, reputationally speaking. That is why I think it’s best to conduct dispute resolution privately. Otherwise, this could easily degenerate into the type of ugly argument that I believe has no place on this board.Personally, I’m not thrilled that we have moved so far from a mutually-supporting group that was primarily for cosmetic chemists and aspiring cosmetic chemists. I am distressed to hear that someone believes that it is possible to use this site to legitimize less than scrupulous behavior - that’s the sort of thing that makes me wish that we could restrict this group more strictly to professionals (and students).In the interests of harmony here in the Forum, I’m going to make both of you an offer, @inspire78 and @Lily88. Post your project briefs (in a separate discussion, please) or you can even send them to me privately, and I’ll take a look and report back to you on what I think it will take to come up with a formula for you. If it’s not too much work, I’ll try to put something together for each of you without charge. -
@inspire78 and @Lily88:
Have you communicated with one another to confirm that it is the same Chemist you are dealing with? -
Bozchemist I agree that conflicts should be resolved privately and numerous attempts were made to do this all to no avail. This was not a disagreement over formulas, samples, ingredients, cost, timelines etc. this was fraud. This individual was paid in full and delivered no samples or formulas. He took the money and disappeared.
While I appreciate your offer to evaluate a product brief, after this experience I’m now only working with people I know personally or are recommended by trustworthy sources.I won’t post further on this but having the information out there so other people can avoid this fraud is a measure of justice.Lily88 -
So, Perry, based on what you are saying, the culprit’s forum identity shall remain unknown except to those who have been defrauded. That’s perplexing because it tends to make any of those offering their formulating services on this and other forums suspect. Now I do agree with you that just calling out someone as a crook without supporting evidence isn’t something your site would want to do from a moral position or could afford to do from a legal standpoint.
My suggestion is that you approach the ladies who have described their experiences with this person and if you find their assertions credible then remove the accused from any services offering listings. I like your website and I am impressed by the work you do. In this situation I just think you need to be a bit more paternal than is usually called for. -
Edited previous post to correct a typo.
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I seriously hope that the person concerned is not a current member of this site.
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Bob, I want to thank you for the offer you made in the interest of the Forum. While I’m only a bystander reading this thread, I just wanted to say that it really was above and beyond generous, and a wonderful gesture to make. I do hope all this is worked out in a just and speedy manner.
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