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Thickening Alkyl Polyglucosides w/HEC
I’m a hobbyist formulator and I’m experimenting with using different thickeners for my decyl glucoside-based shampoo. I started with xanthan gum, but wanted to try a formulation using a cationic ingredient, cetrimonium chloride. Based on my research, xanthan wouldn’t work, but hydroxyethyl cellulose didn’t have any obvious incompatibilities. Unfortunately, after 8 attempts (so far), I’m about to throw in the towel with HEC… I just can’t get it to work. I have no problem getting it to thicken plain-old-water, but it always clumps and separates in my shampoo. Here’s my formula:
HEATED WATER PHASE
Decyl glucoside 25%
Aloe vera 10%
Glycerin 5%
Cetrimonium chloride 2%
Oat powder 2%
Disodium EDTA 0.2%
HydroxyEthylCellulose 0.7%
Glycol distearate 2%
Distilled Water*COOL DOWN PHASE
Panthenol 2%
Leucidal Liquid 2%
Citric acid 0.5%I pour the HEC into the mixing beaker while mixing with a spoon at the end of the heat-and-hold phase, and continue to mix as it cools. I usually aim for about 10 minutes of continuous mixing, but I’ve done more. As this always fails, I recently tried 30 minutes of mixing with a stick blender. Needless to say, it did a great job of homogenizing it, but also created a thick layer of foam. Sadly, within an hour, there were signs of separation (thin layer floating on top), that got worse over time (a day later, you could see clumps).
As a last ditch effort, I thought about pre-mixing a 0.7% solution of HEC-in-water, and substituting that for my water in the cool-down phase (I tried doing the same thing in my heated phase, but HEC separates when you heat it, and it failed anyway).
Any ideas what’s going on here? Am I doing something wrong or is there an incompatibility I’m unaware of? I read that some cellulose derivatives are incompatible with high levels of polyglucosides, but that’s HPMC, not HEC.
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8 Replies
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Have you tried to use Crothix (PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate)? Or even Glucose-T (PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Trioleate, Propylene Glycol, Water)? Even Polyquaternium-10 would work great in this situation. All are great thickeners and PQ-10 would be great for this application as it’s a conditioner.
I buy HEC as a ready made gel so it’s easier to mix and work with. I normally just add the gel to the water phase, mix well until the water is thickened. Add that to the sufactant phase.HEC needs to be hydrated for at least an hour before you use it. Use 25%-50% of the water phase to hydrate it. It should be hydrated in room temperature water with a neutral pH. It then can be heated. Mix all of your water ingredients in the other half of the water phase. IMHO, HEC doesn’t really thicken all that much to me even at the highest usage rate. And it feels slimey and sticky to me. -
it sounds to me like your problem lies in uneven dispersion and incomplete hydration, so first of all, I’d suggest adding HEC to your batch before any of your surfactants, and make sure it’s fully hydrated before adding anything else (the batch will go clear when it’s hydrated)further to @CosChemFan‘s point, it does take a long time to hydrate at room temperature and neutral pH, but it will do so a lot faster under mildly alkaline conditions (pH 7-
and at higher temperatures -
CosChemFan: I don’t have any of those things, but I’ll consider it if I can’t get anywhere with HEC. HEC was appealing to me because it seemed to have no incompatibilities with anything.
Bill_Toge & CosChemFan: I tried stick blending the HEC with heated water (~70-75C), and it thickened after cooling. The stick blending created a lot of bubbles/foam, so I waited a day before attempting to make shampoo again. When I was ready, I had a separate beaker for the water+HEC solution and surfactant+everything else. After I raised the temperature to 70-75C, I noticed the HEC had separated and formed clumps that floated to the top. Stirring with a spoon didn’t help, so then I poured it into the beaker with the other ingredients, and stick blended it.
Anyway, my point is that I think after stick blending the HEC solution and waiting for a day or more, it should have been properly hydrated, right? I have never been able to get HEC+water completely clear though… under close inspection I can still see very tiny dust-like particles, but this doesn’t separate until I mix it into my shampoo.
It sounds like maybe next time I should: Spoon mix the HEC in 50% of my water an hour before making shampoo, and use the other 50% water to mix with the other ingredients, then apply heat, and once I’ve reached 70C, mix everything together? OR, keep the surfactant separate from HEC+everything else until…when? I can’t wait for it to be clear because of the oat powder. I suppose I could leave it out for troubleshooting.
Sorry for rambling, this has been really annoying. Thanks for the help.
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if it separates and forms lumps when heated, that suggests it wasn’t fully hydrated in the first place; either that or it’s not HEC, since HEC is very tolerant of heat for short periods
this brochure, from one of the world’s main HEC manufacturers, contains a comprehensive guide to dispersing it and formulating with it on page 7-9: -
@thebrain HEC is very picky about the temperature it hydrates in. Try hydrating it water slightly hotter than room temp. Only after it’s fully hydrated can you turn up the heat on it.
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Thanks, guys. I will give it a shot and report back later… perhaps this weekend when I have some free time.
One last question: When you have used HEC in the past, was it completely clear after mixing, i.e. was it like thickened water, with absolutely no particles floating in it? Even when I dissolved HEC in water alone, I could just barely make out dust-like particles, and I’m not sure if that’s normal, or an indication that it wasn’t completely dissolved.
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@thebrain I was reading this and I have exactly the same problem. Lumps floating at the top of my shampoo. How’s your latest progress?
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First of all, have you used this product? Did you like it?
Use if for about a month and see if it can clean your hair enough.Second, you cant thicken this much decyl Glucoside and glycerin.
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