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Where is the co-emulsifier?
This is the ingredient list for Dr Deniss Gross’ Ferulic Acid + Retinol Brightening Solution serum:
Water, Ethoxydiglycol, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Ferulic Acid,
Potassium Azeloyl Diglycinate, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice)
Rhizome/Root, Arctostaphylos Uva Ursi Leaf Extract, Arbutin, Morus Alba
Leaf Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract, Salicylic Acid, Glycolic
Acid, Mandelic Acid, Retinol, Hexylreorcinol, Sodium Hyaluronate,
Panthenol, Quercetin Caprylate, Disodium Lauriminodipropiante Tocopheryl
Phosphates, Ubiquinone, Phospholipids, PVM/MA Decadience Crosspolymer,
Disodium EDTA, Urea, Potassium Hydroxide, Polysorbate 20, PhenoxyethanolUnless I am missing something, the only emulsifier I see is Polysorbate 20 and the thickener PVM/MA Decadience Crosspolymer. I wonder if these two ingredients are enough to maintain the emulsion stable. Thanks
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13 Replies
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The PVM/MA Decadience Crosspolymer (Stabileze) would probably be enough to keep it stable.
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Thank you
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Perry. Is PVM/MA Decadience Crosspolymer an ingredient similar to Pemulen? Thanks
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PVP/MA Decadiene is the correct name I guess, functionally you can say it is similar to Pemulen.
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How did you dissolve Salicylic acid? Did it separate when you cool the emulsion to Room Temp?
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“Phospholipids” perhaps.
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Why is it assumed that this is an emulsion? Its name idicates that it is a solution and this is made more apparent by the clarity of the product.
Ferulic acid will be most likely present at 1% or less, meaning that there is an efficient water/glycol ether/glycol solvent mixture which should take care of the minor quantities of any low water soluble ingredients.
Note also there is potassium hydroxide listed - this will, in part at least, neutralise acidic components.
The current LOI differs somewhat from that declared above viz:
Water (Aqua), Ethoxydiglycol, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Potassium
Azeloyl Diglycinate, Ferulic Acid, Retinol, Glycyrrhiza Glabra
(Licorice) Root Extract, Arctostaphylos Uva Ursi Leaf Extract, Arbutin,
Morus Alba Leaf Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract, Salicylic
Acid, Glycolic Acid, Mandelic Acid, Hexylresorcinol, Sodium Hyaluronate,
Panthenol, Quercetin, Disodium Lauriminodipropionate Tocopheryl
Phosphates, Ubiquinone, Phospholipids, Disodium EDTA, PVM/MA Decadiene
Crosspolymer, Urea, Potassium Hydroxide, Phenoxyethanol.The position of ferulic acid has been changed, quercetin caprylate has been changed to quercetin, polysorbate 20 has been removed.
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Just noticed the starting date on this thread.
Why is JOJO91343 carrying out these exhumations?
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For Salicylic Acid Separation, try to monitor Stability Results: If the product is OTC or if it has API like Salicylic Acid, you may run Stability Studies . Usually The Stability Studies are Long Term (3 years in case of OTC - 25C), Accelerated (3 - 6 Months - 40C), Intermediate (1.5 Year - 30C), Refrigerated (3-6 months - 6C), Freezer (3-6 Months - below 0C), and UV (3-6 Months-One sample covered by foil and the other without foil with exposing the one without foil to sunlight). With me, I didn’t experience any separation with SLS, SLES, Chembetaine, and Alcohol. But you can run Stability Studies to make sure of that. Also, if you have access to inside or outside lab to test the product for Regression Analysis on Monthly Basis to see whether the Concentration of Salicylic Acid is declining by time. If it’s declining, it could be an indication of several factors: e.g Separation, Cross-Reaction, or other factors. Also, if you get haziness at leat through 3 - 6 Months in the Accelerated Results or precipitation in the Refrigerated or Frozen Results, you may change the solubilizer, technique, or concentration of the solubilizer.
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There are different solubilizers for Salicylic Acid even for only water based formulas. The key factor is whether it will dissolve completely or it will separate after some hours. After dissolving it, you may leave it stagnant for some hours. If it separates/precipitates, you may need to change the technique or solubilizer (type or percentage) You may dissolve it in Glycereth-18 Ethylhexanoate (and) Glycereth-18. The Ratio here is Salicylic Acid : Hest G - 18 -O is 20 : 80 or 2:8 in case of using 2% Salicylic Acid, as shown in the following link, . Actually, you may combine two formulas together. Dissolving Salicylic Acid, then, making the shampoo. Re: https://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1113931.pdf?bs=605&b=186849&st=1&sl=58775328&crit=a2V5d29yZDpbU0FMSUNZTElDIEFDSUQgRk9STVVMQVRJT05d&k=SALICYLIC|ACID|FORMULATION&r=na&ind=personalcarehttps://www.ulprospector.com/documents/1182822.pdf?bs=605&b=238242&st=1&r=na&ind=personalcare For dissolving Salicylic Acid in Surfactants, I passed by a supporting formula for it:http://www.stepan.com/uploadedFiles/Literature_and_Downloads/Formulations/Cleansers_(liquid_soaps,_facial_and_bath_products)/StepanFormulation1072.pdf Also, Salicylic Acid can be dissolved in Ethyl Alcohol (SDA 40) or Denatured Alcohol in different Ratios. But the issues here is flammability (it shouldn’t be heated) and the odor. Strong Fragrance should be added.
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@JOJO91343
Why do you react to a thread from 2013? -
Doreen. That’s a good question. It’s the nature of my mind. In the year 2013, I didn’t know the best way of dissolving Salicylic Acid in water phase and/or oil phase without separation in the long run passing all the Temp. and Humidity Conditions up to three years from the formulation date and without declining in concentration results of the Regression analysis, Now I know it under all these conditions. But I want the other researchers in the discussion to have the benefit of the doubt. For me, research is all about Education, Reading, and applications (Micro Scale: In the lab and Macro Scale: In Production. Not everything we hear and/or read is absolutely right. We have to try it in different settings to know in which settings, it is applicable and in which settings it is not applicable. Even the level of Academic Science. Recently, the new researchers proved that some of the science theories in the past century had its own limitations and it can’t be applicable in all settings. My Motto is “If I can’t prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, If I can’t detect using my senses, it many not be right or at least not in all conditions.”
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There are so many ways to dissolve SA and keep it dissolved in the solution, especially when the concentration is up to 3%. I don’t find it so difficult.
Looking again at the LOI of that product in 2013 you can see too many extract indicating the % for each of them is very low (most likely below 0.5%). An other thing is the combination of Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract and Salicylic Acid which indicates SA is less than 0.5% as well. So dissolving that little SA is very easy.
If you search in the forum @Zink have posted a good list of solubilizers for SA which you may use.
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