OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Right. You have to find that out with other data
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Well, you can search “cleansing oil” by itself but that will only tell you if interest in the topic is increasing or decreasing. As you can see from the graph interest in the topic had a little bump around May 2020, but it’s been pretty flat overall. Of course, that data is from the United States. You can do search in Morocco and the numbers are a little more even. However, it’s ver low search volume for both terms if you just look at Morocco. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?cat=44&date=today%205-y&geo=MA&q=Cleansing%20oil,cleanser
The term “cleansing oil” is a marketing term. It has no legal or scientific meaning. So, it could be a gel or a thin liquid. It all has to do with the expectations of the consumer and the story you want to tell.
I used to work on the product VO5 Hot Oil treatment. There was no “oil” in the product. It was a thickened polymer / cationic surfactant system.
I don’t know what is the most popular type of face cleanser. However, if you do a search on Amazon.com under “best sellers” you find the following.
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Beauty-Personal-Care-Facial-Cleansing-Products/zgbs/beauty/11060901/ref=zg_bs_nav_beauty_3_11060711Cerave seems very popular as do micellar waters. Looks like most things come out of a pump. It’s not easy to figure these things out. You have to investigate and make your best guesses.
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@Ghita37 - Great questions.
The graph shows you a comparison of the frequency of people searching “Cleanser” vs the frequency of people searching “cleansing oil”. So, yes, the graph gives you information about how often people literally type those words into the Google search engine.
Now, Google doesn’t tell you exactly how many times as this is proprietary information. They just show you a percentage of how frequently something has been searched compared to other days.
A 100% score would mean that is the most something has ever been searched on that day. So in that graph the highest point is somewhere in the middle. That could mean say 10,000 people searched for “cleanser” that day. Around that same time, it looks like “cleansing oil” was about 25% which would mean 2500 people searched for that.
Now, I’m just making up search volume numbers. It could be that 50,000 people searched or 1000 people searched. I do not know exactly. It just tells you relatively speaking, “cleanser” is searched for about 3 times more than “cleansing oil”
But this doesn’t necessarily mean that people are 3 times more interested in buying cleansers than cleansing oils. Google trends doesn’t tell you whether a search word is from someone just interested in learning about the topic or someone wants to buy the product. That requires more investigation by you.
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@MarkBroussard - have they? It seems more like “theater of regulation” than an actual effort to pass anything. But as long as the new regulations just reflect what big corporations are already doing, then it has a chance. Perhaps I’m just too cynical. lol
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@MarkBroussard - No. I doubt it will get very far. Once Republicans take over the house they’ll ignore it. I predict that unless Democrats control both houses of congress (with a workable majority) and the white house, there won’t be a bill like this that passes.
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I was referring to “worms” the animals (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm).
There is no relationship between worms and cleansing oils. I was just demonstrating that you can use Google Trends to analyze the popularity of a search term, but the data is only useful if you are comparing two similar things. As far as search goes “cleansing oil” is more popular “worms” but that doesn’t really tell you much. So if you are going to use Google Trends you have to carefully define what you are comparing your search term to. Every term is more popular than some terms and much less popular than others.
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It seems like if they exempt small businesses, they are solving a problem that doesn’t exist. Aren’t big companies already following GMP, doing safety testing, etc? The etsy maker who whips things up in their kitchen and sells them on the Internet without any testing or quality control is exempt?
If this passes, what problem does it exactly solve?
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Yes, I use Google Trends. Whether something is popular or not is all relative. Yes, cleansing oil is not popular compared to cleaners. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?cat=44&date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=Cleansing%20oil,cleanser
But it is popular compared to something like..worms. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?cat=44&date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=Cleansing%20oil,worms
What specifically are you hoping to learn from Google Trends?
(Perhaps you should start another discussion about this topic) -
With it being a law pretty much everywhere that it is illegal to sell unsafe cosmetics, ALL legal cosmetics on sale right now are “clean”.
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@MarkBroussard - Well, for every story like that I’m bet there are dozens (hundreds) of stories where people pay for certification and end up with a garage full of product they never sell. A couple people also make money through MLMs, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for most people.
But I don’t really know. I’d be interested to see the data on how well EWG certified brands do. I suspect most consumers have never heard of the EWG.
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If you make a good moisturizer that is pleasant to use with a good fragrance & interesting packaging plus create a good story about how the product could help, that’s all you need. The formulating part is not the hard part.
Even if you could make a product that speeds healing by 50%, if you don’t have a compelling story and a product that is aesthetically pleasing to use, it’s unlikely people will buy it. In the cosmetics industry, story beats formula function.
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Someone in Lonza marketing is getting a little loosey goosey with their facts
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@GoldenFish - if it’s just based on people’s experience you don’t need anything more than a good moisturizer. You can put in other ingredients for a story & tell people it helps healing.
You have to remember there are three things that can happen with any condition that is untreated
1. it gets better
2. it gets worse
3. there’s no changeThese are exactly the same things that can happen to the condition after any treatment.
If you want to make a product that really works you’ll need a placebo controlled, double blinded study to demonstrate effectiveness. If you don’t want the expense & rigor of this, just create a good moisturizer with story ingredients.
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Agreed, for leave-on silicones are superior to polyquaternium 7
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I would read that as you have to list BHT since you know it is put in the material.
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If we look at the philosophy of why ingredients are listed, they are for one main purpose- to alert consumers of ingredients to which they may be allergic.
if you use that as a guide you should be listing any extra added ingredient in a raw material.
ingredient lists should not be used as marketing tools.
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@CedarWind108 - unfortunately putting that much alcohol in formulas starts to raise flammability/explosion issues in production. We made hairsprays in a place we called the boom boom room.
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No secrets for me. But I fancy myself more of an educator than a formulator. Formulating just happens to be the topic I try to educate about (and in which I’m quite interested).
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@Pharma - from a volume standpoint, there are many other things in society that are much worse for the environment than cosmetics. When we kill the planet it won’t be because of how much skin lotion people used.
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In my view “clean” is a dubious marketing story (scam) used to dupe consumers into thinking that products labeled “clean” are safer than products not labeled “clean.”
It’s not really a surprise that marketers have been successful with clean beauty marketing. Fear mongering persists because it is effective. When you have no performance difference to talk about, you tell consumers that your product is not as dangerous as your competitor’s. Consumers are easily fooled into thinking that after they’ve looked something up on the Internet they now have “done their research” and are now ingredient experts.
Consumers aren’t picking ingredients to avoid. They have been trained by marketers and are simply following their programing. They purchase Clean at Sephora because they (incorrectly) believe the products are safer.
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I agree this probably goes no where (and it shouldn’t) but it would be great if this prompted all of these “clean” brands/sites to disappear.
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It’s also due to hydrogen bonding. When you sleep, you sweat. Water gets on strands and can cause bonding within the fiber and between fibers.
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Because there are things that can grow at that pH
Because 10% ethanol is not preserving
Because you don’t know how much microbial exposure the product will experience
Because you don’t know the storage & use conditions of the product
Because lots of reasons.why not just add a preservative?
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I love the DIYers and encourage them to test and experiment and make their own products. They may actually be able to create a product they like better than anything they can buy.
However, too many are given empty promises about what they can actually accomplish. For the most part a DIYer will not be able to make a product that works as well as the best products made by big companies. They also will not be able to make the product for less money than it would cost to just buy a finished product.
The most likely result is creating more expensive products that don’t work as well (for most people).
It’s not surprising in the least that the vast majority do not make any money at it.
The biggest reason for that is because marketing sells beauty products. If you are a DIYer and want to start your own beauty line, focusing your efforts on making a great formula is a waste of time. You only need to make a formula that is “good enough”. Consumers are just not very good at noticing the difference between a brilliantly formulated product and one that is good enough. Put your efforts into learning marketing if you want to have your own product line.
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Is this a solid? It looks like it would be solid. Also, what is Hairfix? That is not any kind of INCI listed ingredient that I know of.
Perhaps it might help to have some kind of surfactant/emulsifier in there (e.g. behentrimonium methosulfate, glyceryl stearate or cetrmionium choride). It’s hard to say.