EVchem
Forum Replies Created
-
definitely agree with bill- tap water introduces huge potential burden, you can test it to confirm but ultimately for consistency you should get DI water at least
-
All good points so far- What preservative are you currently using and what is your water source?
-
Which form of vitamin C are you using? What pH are you at? Can you share at least the full ingredients list? People can only help when given more information
-
if this is for your work and you have a company email I’d suggest making a ULprospector account. there are some supplier made formulas there you could use as a better starting point- sometimes its better to start fresh than to keep patching holes. ultimately pharma makes a good point, you won’t be able to understand what changes you can make without some more foundational knowledge.
-
I don’t think it’s a dumb question but I also don’t have a great answer. Without major equipment I don’t see how you would test which oils are staying on the surface vs being absorbed. I think if you are trying to target a specific time to absorb then make just one of these oils your base and then you could use the others to try and adjust the feel/absorption time. If you work with suppliers, IOI oleochemical had a presentation all about creating different textures from application to rub-in/ afterfeel with different chain length lipids and their technical team might be able to provide more clarity.
-
The aerosil is extremely small and light, highly recommend wearing a well-fitting mask because it will float around if you aren’t careful with addition. I’ve also noticed it can get draggy in higher amounts (>2%), especially if you don’t have any silicones/materials to provide slip in the formula.
There are a huge variety of starches that may help beyond arrowroot, but I don’t know if they have repackers/are accessible for individuals. Maybe you could try using micas/synthetic micas that are used to create matte looks in makeup?
-
You’re going to have to provide more details- can you list the ingredients present? Is it stringy when you pour/pump it or is the texture noticeable even when sitting?
-
ambient humidity/ condensation can pool on top of the product- do you trust the instrument you got the humidity readings from? For me I’ll ignore a ‘small’ amount of water on top, but it’s really up to each individual to decide where to draw the line. I’ve wondered about letting the samples come back to room temp and then pouring out excess water, not sure if that would be helpful or hide an underlying problem.
Accelerated stability is a double edged sword- it shows some potential issues you might see during a products real time shelf life, but the heat can also cause some reactions/results that might not normally occur under standard conditions. That’s why stability protocols will include accelerated stability but still perform real time room temperature testing to get the best overall picture of a product.
-
When you say “healthier/less harmful” what are you looking for? Has this product noticeably damaged your hair in any way?
-
You could try doing an oil rinse and then following with alcohol/ surfactant. Or maybe invest in a sonicator / an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner
-
@Abdullah- that’s been my experience as well, and many other formulas I’ve seen incorporate the gum into the water first. I always figured any charges (even weak van der waals forces) of the surfactants could interrupt the way the gum sets up.
Unfortunately I don’t have an answer to your actual question- there might be an experiment you could design to quantitatively answer that but at the end of the day you could try making the same formula each way and then assessing performance.
-
@tecnico3vinia - you are saying tocopheryl acetate “works” as an antioxidant in the formula, how are you evaluating that? Are you going based off appearance/smell, or do you test something quantitative like peroxide content?
Totally agree with Mark and micro here
Vitamin E Acetate is more stable than tocopherol, and that’s exactly why it is not a good antioxidant. In rough terms, antioxidants should be unstable- they take the hit of free radicals and react so that your other materials aren’t undergoing those chemical reactions, resulting in odor or color change.
As far as studies here’s a quick one
-
For question 1:
No I don’t think you can substitute- the original emulsifier is meant for O/W systems, your substitution is meant for W/O.I’ve never used this shop but they have it available here:
https://www.flowertalescosmetics.com/en/catalogue/product/polyglyceryl-3-dicitrate-stearate
if you have a connection with an evonik rep:
https://glenncorp.com/shop/tego-care-psc-3-mb/ -
Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate is anionic, Polyquat 7 is cationic, they do not play well together
-
It’s watery because it’s mostly water- if you can’t change carbomer then you’re pretty limited here, maybe just add more glycol?
-
@Paprik, interesting, that would explain some things… what if some of your water is tied up in low pH actives as well though? There’s no concern the surfactants will interfere with the way the gum sets up? I always see supplier formulas add gums and thickeners to water alone
-
the cfr does not specify from what I can tell
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=347&showFR=1 -
agree on check your drums/pails! we had a material that we later discovered was ‘dirty’ in the drum straight from the supplier- almost looked like water left over from a rinse was stuck in the bottom of an oil filled drum
-
@lucioc do you actually need to produce these formulas or just have something on paper to get a formula cost? UL prospector has tons of free formulas like this but you have to register
-
@AVisotsky Yes I’m a big fan if data entry is done right it’s a great tool. There are sections for raw materials, overall formula building, packaging, BOM building and there are add on modules for production, inventory, and quality management
-
@Leo Thanks for your input- so is it a misnomer when products are saying onion ‘oil'(is it really juice as you call it)? We have water-based onion extract, but the oil is proving difficult. The one formula we were shown as a benchmark does appear to be a real oil.
@Microformulation Thank you as well. that option didn’t show up in my search because I was going by INCI- their paperwork doesn’t have any CAS or real information about the product identity which is a little concerning, and it seems like this product is specifically for onion smell- if anything I think we are looking to avoid that and go for a cold-pressed oil.
-
I think @Paprik is on the right track- blooming is more like crystal formation, syneresis is ‘sweating’. @ChemicalPyros suggestion of the silica could also help- I’ve used Aerosil 200 at <1%. For reference I also used 10% Glyceryl Stearate/ PEG-100 Stearate in a balm with similar issues, but that was castor oil based.
-
@niecie2k Yes it is hard to compare, but when I look at other formulas for reference it helps to break things down like this:
— try to identify where things are similar- you are making a color cosmetic for the eyes , so the ingredients you need will be:
-something to provide structure ( your beeswax/carnauba, maybe your ‘hard butter’ depending on melt point)
-something to provide slip (several ingredients here , you may want to do knockout testing and run formulas where you take out something like ‘soft butter’ and evaluate performance)
-something to provide color
-possibly an additional ingredient to coat /disperse the color (your lauryl laurate though this also adds slip)You should try looking at sample formulas to match up the functions between their ingredients and yours, even if the INCIs are different. Once you understand if the functions match, then you can do more comparisons of their physical effects. Perry often mentions on here to start incredibly simple and change one thing at a time, it may be slow but that’s how you will get the most information and understanding of what ingredients do to overall performance.
If I were trying this formula again I would try with more carnauba wax, find out the melt point of your beeswax/ hard butter to make sure they aren’t too low, remove lanolin, soft butter, and maybe some of your “oils”
-
Jeen International/Botanicals Plus still sells Honeyquat, they just don’t list their products on UL Prospector
-
@AVisotsky the software is literally called formulator
https://www.formulatorus.com/
It sounds like it can do much of what access does it’s just already set up and designed for food/supplements/cosmetic formulations. Lots of ability to add in modules and connect with other systems like ERP