[arhlene.lyons]

Hi Perry.

Thank you for your response. I will drop the EO and remove the Allantoin. No there is no Microbial growth, well not that I can see. The separation is a clear section about 1/4 of the volume of the shampoo. Could the EO & Allantoin have such a large effect?

Is the % of the GHPC small enough so as not to impact?

A month is a long time to wait for a reaction. Is there a faster way eg heating cooling and repeat.

[arhlene.lyons]

Thank you so much for your response. The shampoo that split was the previous shampoo without the Carbomer. I do take your point however and will remove Hydrolysed wheat protein and PQ10.

The ultrez 21 did thicken the shampoo however but the concern is -will it split later on. I will make another the same as above but with these changes and using the Carbomer UL 21. I really would like to to have put in the GHPC (0.2%) as it helps with knots. To what % can I increase the PQ 7?

I have Acrypol ET 1 -would that be a better choice than the Carbomer Ultrez 21?

[arhlene.lyons]

Oh horror! After about 6 weeks my above shampoo split. I have decided on Carbopol Ultrez 21 as a Carbomer. Starting steps-

Water 52.3%

EDTA 0.2%

pH between 6-7

Carbomer 2%

Let stand for 30 min with periodic mixing (manual)

Add AOS 10%

Coco glucoside 3%

CAPB 18%

Propandiol 1.3 3%

Hydrolysed Wheat protein 3%

PQ 7 3%

PQ 10 1%

Allantoin 0.3%

Argan oil 2% ( This was a later addition as comb through was terrible. I may have added to much at 2% as hair feels nice but perhaps weighted down).

Disperse 0.2% GHPC in 2% Dimethicone 350, then add.

Balance is EO and LGP.

Will the Carbopol stabilise the shampoo so it doesn’t split especially after adding the oil?

Can I use 2% of the water to dissolve the PQ 10 or will it cause problems because it’s not mixed with the Carbomer?

There are small (not a lot) insolubilised matter. I think it’s the Carbomer. I don’t know what to do to solubilise it. An option is to use Acrypol ET 1 (liquid).

Any help would be very appreciated.

[arhlene.lyons]

I don’t have access to Carbopol 980. Will 990 or 940 work? I do have Acrypol ET-1 (liquid) but I can’t get that to work. Thank you for your help in this.

[arhlene.lyons]

Hi juggsy. Sorry i miss spoke. It feels… i suppose oily. I love that emulsifier. My Body butters are made with it. I will give it a try in the BBombs just for the experience.

I have left the best news for last. I made the changes as you suggested. They came out great. Foaming was what i wanted and yes, they spin. I’m so great full. Thank you.

I didn’t eliminate the Tapioca all together but reduced it to 1%. My thinking was that it would make the bomb last a little longer. I added 0.2 % PEG 40… it possibly helped. Can’t say. It was raining so drying wasn’t an issue.

Thank you so much.

[arhlene.lyons]

Hi Juggsy.

Oh my goodness, you have helped me with such good advice. I’m going to give it a bash now. Just curious about a few things. I’m in South Africa so we have dry winters and summer rainfall (not so much now due to global warming). I bought a humidifier too and put it on when air is dry. What emulsifier could I use for the wet days. A liquid? I’m going to persevere with the P80 but drop the amount. I hand press and press the living daylights out of the bombs. So great full I can calm down with that.

For interest sake, some folks use P20 and then reduce the water amount. Is P20 less soapy?

Great full for your time and advice.

Arhlene

[arhlene.lyons]

I mean my hair feels really thick. The shampoo thickness is perfect.

[arhlene.lyons]

I’m going to try that. Can I just use the AOS 40 and CAPB? Also another question just to understand - if you were to add the GHPC to CAPB, will it make the Betain cationic or will it turn more Anionic with the greater amount of AOS 40 even though AOS added much later. I always wondered why some formulas add the betain separate to the other surfactants and much later. Thank you for your response.

[arhlene.lyons]

Thank you Perry, I will drop the PQ7.

[arhlene.lyons]

Hi Ketchito. Thank you for your response. I changed the recipe and got a better result. I increased the Anionic and Amphoteric SF and decreased the Glucoside. Adding that to the water. Brought down the pH and then thickened with salt. I found that I could go up to 4%. Do you think I’m treading on thin ice?

I dropped the Xanthan gum (maybe that caused problems- don’t know). Texture is much better.

Recipe as follows:

Aqua 43.5%

Hostapur AOS 40 -20%

Decyl 3%

CAPB 19%

Citric- 0.1%

Salt -4 % ( Too high?)

Tocopherol acetate- 0.3%

EO- 1%

Allantoin- 2% ( because sF are mid range, I thought to protect the scalp- will probably wash off but I have lots.😊

Glycerine 5%. Will take your advice and drop it to a lower %.

Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride 0.1% . Keeping it low because it’s Cationic. It also coats the hair a little and maybe not good for a Clarifying shampoo.

LGP- 0.5%

Polyquaternium 7-0.5%.

It’s a strange sequence but I needed to see when a problem occurred.

The Carbopol -is it then for suspension more than thickening. Also, would you use it when using PEG 40 Dimethicone? I would like to add it to my next shampoo. ( not the clarifying one).

Sorry for all the questions and thanks again for your help.

[arhlene.lyons]

Thank you for your help ketchito. Im waiting for a Sodium Lauroyl sarcosinate delivery before continuing.

I make brilliant shampoo pucks (bars) and was wondering about switching to that Anionic sf I.e SCI. I know that you dissolve it in CAPB but that it may hydrolyze out. What does that mean? Settle out? Will this happen under certain conditions eg concentrations, other ingredients? Should I avoid it?

[arhlene.lyons]

Thank you ketchito. I will do that. Do you think the Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride and the Sodium Lauroyl sarcosinate will be okay together?

[arhlene.lyons]

Hi Aniela.

Thank you so much for your help. I will choose another glucoside and look at the article.

I am determined to get this right.