[Mira]

ketchito said:

@Amira You might search for a couple of books that have good content for the topic: “Conditioning agents for hair and skin” and “Chemical and physical behavior of human hair”. 

i will. thank you so much 

[Mira]

Microformulation said:

There are numerous Cosmetic Science texts available for free (if you look correctly) that have whole chapters on Hair Conditioning Products. In my opinion, it is far too broad of a topic to learn through a blog. Also, as you study the text you will get a better OVERALL understanding. Read, study, experiment at the bench.

 ketchito said:

As @Microformulation, hair conditioning is a broad topic; for instance, cationic deposition cannot only be regarded as a charge-driven phenomena since all cationic molecules are different (for instante, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine needs to be neutralized for deposition on hair, and depending on the acid used, that might lead the formula to an acidic pH). Keep in mind that the isoelectric point of hair is below 4.0, so pH above the IP will already have hair with negative charge. 

thank you for replying and i am sorry for replying late.
i am a chemist and i formulate hair products and always try to learn more from a lot of sources but actually it is a bit confusing now because of the misinformation and opposite opinions.
if you would please share with me a trusted free sources, i would be thankful
  

[Mira]

Abdullah said:

1. 1-4% means you can use whatever amount you like in this range. 
I like 1% because my hair is oily and heavy. You may like more. 

2. It may be true. But does more mean better?
Not always.

3. Yes you can

@Camel that is a very good chart. Can you share the source. 

thanks for replying.
i know that it is a range between 1 -4 and i could use any percent, i meant if deep conditioners was to use low  percentage as it sits on hair for time

[Mira]

@Camel 
thanks for your reply and for sharing  those charts & sorry for my late reply 

but there is a misunderstanding here, i am not asking about leave-in conditioners
 i am talking about the rinse off conditioners, the instant con. and deep con. (or so called hair mask) and the difference between them in cationic surfactants percentage.
and from charts, that`s a wide range for ph !!!    

[Mira]

@ngarayeva001 
First, realy sorry for replying so late. I just saw your comment
It is popular through beauty bloggers and curly social groups and people believe them. 
I’ve never convinced about it and like you, i searched alot and nothing by science for those terms. 
The main problem for me  is that i started my brand with  hair products and people keep asking those questions about do it contains protein cause my hair is protein sensitive ???? or high protein hair 
And whatever i explain and say that there is no such thing,  no one believes me. 

But for the past months, things change a bit  As dermatologists begin to speak about that and explain more to people  about hair. 

[Mira]

@letsalcidob
Thank you. I woud try making 2 samples with diferent  ph to see

[Mira]

@Belassi 
Unfortunately, Potassium glycyrrhizate is not available here nor the acid. I would leave the idea of lightening effect for now. 
Thank you so much for your input and the information. 

[Mira]

@Belassi 
Ok, thank you for this. 
But, what would you recommend for lightening effect (no for vit c, kojic for oxidation & high ph problems) 

[Mira]

Belassi said:

You won’t see any skin lightening effect with that kind of licorice extract, at least I don’t think so.

Would you please expalin to me why? 

[Mira]

@letsalcido 
Thank you for your input. 
But, u see that skin friendly ph is not the best for a deodorant? 
Please would you explain this to me? 
What i choose to be my actives are zinc ricinoleate and kaolin as odor absorbent, with antimicrobial oils like tea tree oil and rosmary EO. Without the need for high ph to kill bacteria. 
Unfortunately, the saccharomyces ferment filtrate is not available in my country. 

[Mira]

@Belassi 
Now, i am willing to remove zinc oxide, lower licorice extract may be to 2%. 
But as a thought, if i used niacinamide (for underarm  depigmentation along with the licorice extract) and i used  lactic acid to adjust ph to 5.5
Would it be right? 

[Mira]

Belassi said:

Licorice  extract 5% - that is a huge amount. What kind of extract is that?

It is 70 % water extract as I  told by the supplier 

[Mira]

ngarayeva001 said:

Zinc oxide shifts ph up. Why do you need it at all?

@ngarayeva001 
Zinc oxide has antimicrobial effect and reduce body odor. 

[Mira]

@Bill_Toge 
Thank you. I will try the formula without zinc oxide. That’s supposed to lower ph. 

[Mira]

@Bill_Toge 
Zinc oxide is active ingredient for its antimicrobial effect and reducing odor. 
If i use citric acid to lower ph, is it still react with zinc oxide? 

[Mira]

@Belassi 
It is a water based extract  

[Mira]

@Perry
 hello, if you please would help me about this. 
I formulated the deodorant as following:

Cetostearyl alcohol 5 %
Viscolam AT 100p     2% emulsifier 
 (inci;

Sodium Polyacryloyldimethyl Taurate, Hydrogenated Polydecene, Trideceth-10)  Carrageenan 0.2 % Oils 6% Sorbitol 2% Edta 0.1 Zinc oxide 5% Zinc ricinoleate 3% Kaolin 5% Corn starch 2% Licorice  extract 5% Aloe vera extract 1% Vit.E 0.5 % Preservative 0. 5% Fragrance 1% Water up to 100 The consistency of the cream is good and it’s spreading over skin.  But, I found the ph more than 8. I used lactic acid to lower it.  I added 3% lactic acid, ph now 7.1 I still need to lower it to 5.5 but idk if high percent of it would be a good idea   would it be irritant? Do i need to use sodium lactate?  And is the kaolin causing that high ph? Ps. I choose kaolin over bentonite due to the high ph.

[Mira]

@Perry i got your point. 
Thank you so much for always responding my discussions. Realy grateful for learning from you. 

[Mira]

@letsalcido i really appreciate your talk. Thank you 
I agree to all the points u explained 

[Mira]

@LovingItNatural
I was asking about the classifications of hair according to Porosity & what called hair with high protein and hair with low protein. Is it Scientific? 

[Mira]

@Perry @letsalcido thank you for your responses
I understand what you said well and i know it isn’t scientific. 
But dealing with people, what i a suposed to do? 
Do as a chemist and tell people that there is not such a thing like Porosity, high protein & low protein hair and all that not scientific. 
Or do as a brand owner using that marketing claims as people believe in that so much. 
Since this cg (curly girl) methods & routines, and all that blogs, many myths and misunderstanding are there. 

[Mira]

@Perry thank you so much 
I appreciate your advice. 
I will follow-up your guide 

[Mira]

@ngarayeva001 thanks for ur informations
I am trying it and I hope to reach something good. 

[Mira]

@ngarayeva001 thanks for ur reply 
Esaflor ec4 is guar hydroxypropyl trimonium chloride vc 3500-4000.
I don’t have any viscosity builder available except for what I told u. 
And for peg6 Caprylic Capric triglyceride,, is it better or cetiol HE7? 

[Mira]

@ngarayeva001 if i have a surfactant system of sodium cocoglucoside citrate, sarcosinate, cocamidopropyl betaine, lauryl glucoside. And i don’t have corthix to thicken it. But the available is esaflor ec4 (cationic cosmedia), pq10 and peg-6 caprylic capric triglyceride, would it give good viscosity for that surfactant blend?