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Temp Wrinkle Remover & Sodium Silicate
Does anyone have experience in formulating instant wrinkle removers using sodium silicate that wouldn’t mind helping via private message?
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49 Replies
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I have done so. It is not a safe product. The pH is way up there.
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Yes, the pH is high, but the trick is as you acidify to reduce the pH it forms a gel and functions as a thickener. I personally don’t like these types of products as the effect is a complete optical illusion with no long-term benefit. But, dropping the pH is the key.
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Interesting. Before I knocked it off the first time, I tested a sample. The sample (the MLM product sold online) had an existing high pH. Also, someone posted an EU Safety bulletin regarding the pH. But it is something I will look into.
I agree with the optical illusion. Also, in my experience, the people approaching me to “knock-off” this product tend to be more business oriented (hence naive regarding Cosmetics) and willing to push the marketing envelope than I am generally comfortable with.
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If it had a long term effect it wouldn’t be a legal cosmetic.
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Yes, the pH is high. Many of the current ones on the market are high pH. Being a manufacturer, we try to please the customer. It’s not like it will be the only product out there with a high pH. And yes, being a manufacturer this product is business driven. I used to make one back in the late 80’s early 90’s that was very popular. A particular customer I am working with now to develop one doesn’t care for any of the formulations I have made. I tried making one without the usual Veegum and xanthan gum in the formula. I figured I would use Natrosol as the thickener. My intent was to add that, all the other ingredients and save the high pH ingredient for last. I thought that by doing so the raising of the pH would then thicken the product as normally happens with the natrosol I use (thickens by raising the pH). Instead, everything fell apart and separated.
I’m under the gun as I need a sample they like by tomorrow to submit to a major chain on Friday. Something that doesn’t turn white after it dries.
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@MarkBroussard Are you willing to share any info on what you have done in the past either here in in private? If not I understand.
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Sure, no problem. I made one product like this for a client and don’t expect to make any other unless the money is good enough … just not something I am interested in, but I will be happy to share with you what I know.
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e-mail me at: mark.broussard@desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
I’ll see what I can do to help you out.
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@DavidW : I have no experience in formulating this type of product. But if you are looking for acceptable benchmarks, I have heard rave reviews about the instantaneous effect of this product from women who have experienced it first hand.
LOI: Aqua, Sodium Silicate, Magnesium Aluminum Silicate, Sodium Polystyrene Sulfonate, Cucumis Sativus Fruit Extract, Acetyl Hexapeptide-8, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Sodium Hyaluronate, Persea Gratissima Oil, Tuber Melanosporum (Black Truffle) Extract, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Iron Oxide, Mica, Titanium Dioxide, Xanthan Gum, Dimethylaminoethanol Tartrate, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopheryl Acetate
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@EliseCortes Looking at the price I felt a wrinkle on my face is 1200 times better than those in my pocket
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it never fails to amaze me how uptight and superstitious people can get about completely innocuous things like parabens, and yet they’re perfectly happy to put a highly caustic and alkaline product under their eyes: a product which is basically cement minus the sand
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It’s very commonly used in the Oil Industry as drilling fluid. But, then there are quite a few ingredients that have both cosmetic and industrial uses.
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@EliseCortes:
LOL! … Seriously, $1,200! … from the ad copy “This innovative product is the ultimate tool”
They certainly got the ad copy right … only the “ultimate tool” would pay $1,200 for a products whose effect lasts perhaps 6 hours.
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Mark thank you very much.
Elise I appreciate you trying to help
Bill, we just give the customers what they want as long as when used properly it won’t hurt them. -
Lol… @MarkBroussard no arguments here.
And yet there are spas in the US employing estheticians to pick tourists off the streets by offering a free demonstration of this product and within 30 mins some of them will have parted with as much $$$ as I would pay for a small car.
Good luck @DavidW
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We don’t develop these kind of products although with limited data EWG rates it a 3 (low toxicity).Also FYI see patent http://www.google.com/patents/EP0244859A2?cl=en i
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I have quoted and discussed the Kligman patent on this elsewhere on the group - there have been previous posts on this matter. What seems to be missing again in the present discussion is the presence of film formers in the product. The Kligman patent claims ” - - sodium silicate, human serum albumin and an aqueous carrier therefor.” It is my view that the highlighted (my highlighting) ingredient is the one that is all important as this, like some other film forming proteins like gelatin and egg albumen, dry on the skin causing tightening. This use of egg white is an old theatrical trick for producing an oriental appearance to the face by applying the egg white to the sides of the face near to the eye and allowing to dry.
The discussion re. sodium silicate is somewhat misleading. The material is available in numerous grades. Some are alkaline (metasilicate) some very alkaline (orthosilicate) and some fairly neutral. This last is called waterglass and is used as a heatproof adhesive as well as for preserving eggs. I believe that waterglass is the grade intended by Kligman (all of this is elucidated in the patent).
See https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/16325/#Comment_16325
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also makes a good corrosion inhibitor on metal surfaces.
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also makes a good corrosion inhibitor on metal surfaces.
Very true!
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Actually, the Sodium Silicate is the film former in these formulations. You can supplement with additional film formers, but they’re really not necessary.
And, there isn’t a “cosmetic” grade of Sodium Silicate except for one which are beads meant as a replacement for polymer beads in liquid cleansers.
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@EliseCortes:
Yes, I recently got roped into a shop on Lincoln Road in Miami … Adore Cosmetics … really hard sell tactics … tried to sell me an anti-wrinkle kit with Stem Cells for $2,000 that I could make myself for $20 or so.
These practitioners pray on passerby. I feel sorry for the people who get duped into making a purchase.
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Yes, you are correct … Waterglass is the proper variant of Sodium Silicate to use in these types of formulations, but it is quite alkaline. I would not put it on my skin, particularly in the under-eye area without adjusting the pH to slightly acidic.
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I am not a chemist, though I’ve taken chemistry courses in my past. My concern is that, usually, when you acidify an alkaline chemical, you’re changing it into something else (ie: a salt). What happens when you add an acid to an alkaline, sodium silicate mixture? Do you still have sodium silicate after that neutralization? If yes, then how is the neutralization happening? Sorry if my question is amateurish!
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Hi Everyone
I know this is an old discussion, so shall also make a new thread after posting my question here for all you chemists out there.
A quick background: Way back in 1984 I stumbled upon a cheap lotion in a drugstore in London, UK called Temporary Wrinkle Remover. I was only 16 at the time, but had some acne indentation scarring on my temple that made me dreadfully self-conscious. When I saw this lotion I figured if it worked for wrinkles (albeit temporarily) it may fill in the scarring I was so unhappy about.
It was like a miracle. It completely filled the scarring in and my temple looked smooth and normal again. I was over the moon!
I used it when going out socialising, and can honestly say it changed my life — that’s how self-conscious I was of that pitted scarring. To my utter dismay they stopped producing it just a few years later! They did bring out copycat formulas (still do), and Ive tried them all. Every single one. But not one is a patch on the original.I’ve even bought copycat lotions that list the same ingredients but the formula is not the same, and they don’t have the same magical effect.
I realise they’re not skin treatments or medication; they’re simply concealers. But for a woman, or man, the impact on one’s self-esteem is incredible just to look like you have “normal” skin.
The original formula contained: D.I. Water, Sodium Silicate, Magnesium Aluminium Silicate, Iron Oxides
I believe it was manufactured for a company in Florida, possibly in China — I no longer have an original bottle. I do remember it came in a small 1 fl.oz White Plastic Bottle and afternoon shaking the bottle, the clear, slightly pink lotion poured slowly out and was like a paste.
Unlike the copycat lotions when the original dried after dabbing a tiny amount onto your skin, you would feel a very strong tightening/lifting effect. Much stronger than the copycat ones of today. But besides that, once it had dried, if you stroked your fingertip across the dried lotion on (in my case on my temple), although it looked smooth it actually felt rough — as though you were stroking sandpaper. That sounds unpleasant, but the effect was simply magical — and it lasted all day too! It didn’t wear off until you washed your face at night.
My question is: what would have given the lotion that very strong tightening effect, and what ingredient would have made it feel like rough sandpaper once it had dried?I don’t have the exact formula, obviously, nor do I know what strength/type Sodium Silicate, Magnesium Sodium Silicate was used as I’m not a Chemist.Please, if anyone could help me or suggest what I’d need to make some up for myself that would create that same original formula I would be forever grateful and obviously pay for your time or/and advice
Many, many thanks in advance!
JX -
Was the product you used to use made for or by a company named either “Top Billing” or Boyd’s ? Was it maybe called “No Lines Temporary Wrinkle Remover” Do you recall if it looked very similar to the picture below?
If the answer to any of these is yes then I am the person who manufactured the product for them back in the 1980’s and 90’s
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