-
My cream foams and doesn’t spread well :( !!
Hello everybody!! Can anyone help Please!!
I’m a begginer in formulating, I didn’t take any classes yet.. And I keep learning from several sources.. Mostly from the Australian institute of personal care YouTube channel ..
My problem is that I prepared a face cream.. But when I apply it on my skin it starts to foam and takes more time to “dissapear” then the normal. Is the problem with the emulsifier? I used Glyceryl stearate at 5% and my lipids are at 11% ? I found out that it’s a HLB System issue.. And that I have to use a Low HLB… But didn’t found any information about this system and all different Low HLB… Can you show me some exemples?? And what’s the solution to my problem?
PS: any courses On line (free or not) to improve my skills and methods please!! Thank you!
-
18 Replies
-
You should post your entire formula with proper weight percentage. The problem you are describing is the “soaping effect”
-
This is my formula:
Water 74.1 %
Sorbitol 2%
Glycerin 5%
Xanthan gum 0.5%
Glyceryl stearate. 5%
Almond oil 5%
Jojoba oil 6%
Preserves : Benzyl alcohol 0.6%
Tocopherol 1%
Essential oil: 0.2%
What is the saapping effect” and how to correct the shot?? -
MariaSelma said:What is the saapping effect” and how to correct the shot??“Soaping” effect… what you called foaming…and lengthy time to disappear, and probably the number one reason new people arrive at this site…
This question has been answered more times than can be counted. In the upper right corner….there is a search box….type ‘soaping’ click enter….and you will have a free education that money can’t buy!
The simplest answer to your question is…reduce X-gum and add dimethicone…. but there are other ways. -
There are so many issues here besides soaping. Preservation system isn’t adequate. Emulsification system non existent pretty much. GMS isn’t an emulsifier on its own. Too much of tocopherol.
-
ngarayeva001 said:There are so many issues here besides soaping. Preservation system isn’t adequate. Emulsification system non existent pretty much. GMS isn’t an emulsifier on its own. Too much of tocopherol.
Agreed!
You don’t have any nice textural items??? I can’t imagine this feels good….even if you can get it rubbed in? You’ll need some slip, slide, and glide…and that will actually help with the soaping.
And definitely improve the preservative.
Just checking….you know Vit. E is NOT a preservative?
-
ngarayeva001 said:There are so many issues here besides soaping. Preservation system isn’t adequate. Emulsification system non existent pretty much. GMS isn’t an emulsifier on its own. Too much of tocopherol.
why the preservation system isn’t adequate ?
-
Graillotion said:ngarayeva001 said:There are so many issues here besides soaping. Preservation system isn’t adequate. Emulsification system non existent pretty much. GMS isn’t an emulsifier on its own. Too much of tocopherol.
Agreed!
You don’t have any nice textural items??? I can’t imagine this feels good….even if you can get it rubbed in? You’ll need some slip, slide, and glide…and that will actually help with the soaping.
And definitely improve the preservative.
Just checking….you know Vit. E is NOT a preservative?
i’m based on organic formulation … can you give me exmples of some nice textural items that match with the organic formulation ??Like i said .. i’m a begginer and looking for advices from people with strong experience.… and yes Vit E is not a preservative, it’s an antioxydant (i used it for the lipid part) .. -
Graillotion said:MariaSelma said:What is the saapping effect” and how to correct the shot??
“Soaping” effect… what you called foaming…and lengthy time to disappear, and probably the number one reason new people arrive at this site…
This question has been answered more times than can be counted. In the upper right corner….there is a search box….type ‘soaping’ click enter….and you will have a free education that money can’t buy!
The simplest answer to your question is…reduce X-gum and add dimethicone…. but there are other ways.ok .. i’ll check then
-
MariaSelma said:i’m based on organic formulation … can you give me exmples of some nice textural items that match with the organic formulation ??Like i said .. i’m a begginer and looking for advices from people with strong experience.… and yes Vit E is not a preservative, it’s an antioxydant (i used it for the lipid part) ..
I do not formulate organically, so I don’t believe I can provide organic examples. I formulate as naturally as good stewardship allows, then finish with science.
The vitamin E I am familiar with….is very sticky… and will not enhance a texture. I think you will also find that it does everything you are imagining it doing at .2%. More of something good….is not always better.
-
Graillotion said: I do not formulate organically, so I don’t believe I can provide organic examples. I formulate as naturally as good stewardship allows, then finish with science.The vitamin E I am familiar with….is very sticky…will not enhance a texture. I think you will also find that it does everything you are imagining it doing at .2%. More of something good….is not always better.1. what do you mean by “as naturally as good stewardship allows” please develop !!2. yes i totally agree and i found from some researches that at 2% of Tocopherol it tends to have some color changing of the formula, so i think i’ll have to reduce it to 0.1% or 0.5%
-
MariaSelma said:1. what do you mean by “as naturally as good stewardship allows” please develop !!
That means I do not like to slather myself in chemicals. If I have a choice between a natural emollient and an artificial one, I will select the natural one, even if the cost is more. It also means I use lots of naturally derived but processed ingredients. As an example, one of the ingredients I use the most is Isoamyl Laurate…naturally derived…but not very natural. Another example is Lauryl Laurate. Both of these products make for an amazing feel….but guessing would not meet your criteria.
For emulsifiers I use Montanov 202 and GSC. They are reasonably natural, but the first can be a little difficult to work with.
I also use the165 series emulsifier in a more basic lotion product.
I use hydrolyzed Jojoba esters in lieu of petrolatum.
When it comes to preservatives…. I think this is an area that you cannot get wrong. I still prefer not to work with parabens and F releasers….but will be the first to admit they are the most effective. Therefore I use science based hurdle technologies…that start with pH followed by trying to bind the free water, followed by a chelator, followed by a reputable preservative (E 9010) enhanced with Hydroxyacetophenone and phenethyl alcohol to preserve the head space.
I am a fanatic about texture…so I use some rather processed ingredients to get a sensory that blows the mind. But I am certain you won’t be interested in those ingredients.….and me creams disappear into the skin…before the first stroke of your finger has finished it’s first pass.
-
If you have watched the IPCS video, looking at your formula:
You lack a main emulsifier. You can see if there’s any that are certified organic but it’s likely that you will find something that is ecocert or cosmos, which are normally natural derived. Using too much GMS / Glyceryl stearate can lead to the microfoaming, especially with the xanthan gum.
Would recommend reevaluating you preservative to make it broad spectrum as well.
-
Graillotion said:MariaSelma said:1. what do you mean by “as naturally as good stewardship allows” please develop !!
That means I do not like to slather myself in chemicals. If I have a choice between a natural emollient and an artificial one, I will select the natural one, even if the cost is more. It also means I use lots of naturally derived but processed ingredients. As an example, one of the ingredients I use the most is Isoamyl Laurate…naturally derived…but not very natural. Another example is Lauryl Laurate. Both of these products make for an amazing feel….but guessing would not meet your criteria.
For emulsifiers I use Montanov 202 and GSC. They are reasonably natural, but the first can be a little difficult to work with.
I also use the165 series emulsifier in a more basic lotion product.
I use hydrolyzed Jojoba esters in lieu of petrolatum.
When it comes to preservatives…. I think this is an area that you cannot get wrong. I still prefer not to work with parabens and F releasers….but will be the first to admit they are the most effective. Therefore I use science based hurdle technologies…that start with pH followed by trying to bind the free water, followed by a chelator, followed by a reputable preservative (E 9010) enhanced with Hydroxyacetophenone and phenethyl alcohol to preserve the head space.
I am a fanatic about texture…so I use some rather processed ingredients to get a sensory that blows the mind. But I am certain you won’t be interested in those ingredients.….and me creams disappear into the skin…before the first stroke of your finger has finished it’s first pass.
thanks for sharing exemples and your working methods wich are very interesting !!i see that you have a lareg range of choices here that organic doesn’t…. it’s a bit chalenging to combine perfect texture with natural raw materiel.. at the end.. i’ll have to compromise and find a solution that is in the 5% of the formula of synthteic items allowed by organic certifying organisations. -
jemolian said:If you have watched the IPCS video, looking at your formula:
You lack a main emulsifier. You can see if there’s any that are certified organic but it’s likely that you will find something that is ecocert or cosmos, which are normally natural derived. Using too much GMS / Glyceryl stearate can lead to the microfoaming, especially with the xanthan gum.
Would recommend reevaluating you preservative to make it broad spectrum as well.
yes i watched their videos and one of them was about that “Soaping effect” and they recommended to always use one Hight HLB emulsifier with one Low HLB emulsifier and also to stick with 11% of lipids as a maximum concentration in the formula. i couldn’t find any article about htis HLB System so a can clearly understand this subject ! -
You have only benzyl alcohol as a preservative. It’s not sufficient on its own. You need a broad spectrum preservative (which is usually a blend of several preservatives) that covers gram-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, yeast and mould. Short answer is phenonip right answer is that preservation is a huge topic and there’s no one size fits all. You also need a chelator, as it aids the preservative in killing bacteria (somehow affects bacterial membranes, I am not good at microbiology). And speaking of antioxidants, tocopherol isn’t advised to be used above 0.5%. Some sources even say 0.1%.
-
ngarayeva001 said:You have only benzyl alcohol as a preservative. It’s not sufficient on its own. You need a broad spectrum preservative (which is usually a blend of several preservatives) that covers gram-positive bacteria, gram-negative bacteria, yeast and mould. Short answer is phenonip right answer is that preservation is a huge topic and there’s no one size fits all. You also need a chelator, as it aids the preservative in killing bacteria (somehow affects bacterial membranes, I am not good at microbiology). And speaking of antioxidants, tocopherol isn’t advised to be used above 0.5%. Some sources even say 0.1%.
Yes i agree! And I think that the chelator has role in maintaining any pH changing wich can influence on preservative function .
I think that the solution to my initial problem is in the HLB System, but no one has confirmed it for me
… Still have to do more research… -
Actually, your question has been answered repeatedly on this very thread. There are many issues with your formulation.
Glyceryl Stearate is NOT a self emulsifying system. It is usually paired with a high HLB compound to a create an emulsion. What you probably have is some kind of thickened mix somehow being held together by the large amount of xanthan gum and glyceryl stearate you are using.
-
Cafe33 said:Actually, your question has been answered repeatedly on this very thread. There are many issues with your formulation.
Glyceryl Stearate is NOT a self emulsifying system. It is usually paired with a high HLB compound to a create an emulsion. What you probably have is some kind of thickened mix somehow being held together by the large amount of xanthan gum and glyceryl stearate you are using.
Ok next time I’ll make the necessary changes and see the difference
Log in to reply.