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Montanov 68
Hello, I just joined after reading your forum for a long time. I currently trialling different “natural” emulsifiers for a hand cream. I found Olivem 1000 leaving a bit of a waxy feeling, which I personally like for my own hand cream but other people don’t. Next one was montanov 202 which was less waxy but a bit sticky. Not too bad, but very liquid. I tested adding cetyl alcohol and it became too greasy for my liking. Now I tried montanov 68. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong but it simply won’t melt into the oils. At 70/75/80/85 and any point in between it has jelly like bits floating in it. Doesn’t get nice and clear. Then when I pour the oil phase to the water phase a lot of these sticky bits stay in the beaker. Should I simply add the water to the oils instead or am I doing something wrong to cause this? Thank you for any suggestions
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11 Replies
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This does not sound normal to me. Verify if there is anything incompatible in your formula with Montanov 68. Call your re-packer to trouble shoot, maybe they made a mistake.
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I have just emailed them. The formula was really as basic as it gets just a test to see how it behaves : sunflower oil, montanov and water.
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Affecting the final skin feel can be addressed through other measures such as rapid spreading emollients for example.
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I was thinking of using some isoamyl laurate and concate to make it less greasy, but I’ll be using an infused sunflower oil as part of the oil phase. Would you suggest using another oil for the infusion?
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autocorrect..I meant “and isoamyl cocoate”
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Cosmetic76 said:I found Olivem 1000 leaving a bit of a waxy feeling
Have you tried to put Olivem 1000 in the water phase? I think this workflow will give you a completely different feeling.
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hi yes I have. I agree it feels more airy and I quite like it. however unfortunately everyone I asked to test it said the cream feels like there’s candle wax on their hands after it absorbs. Would you have an idea how to make it feel less waxy? Suppose a bit more wet? I tried all sorts, olivwax, brassica alcohol, etc..
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I really love how quickly creams with Olivem absorb and how dry it feels, but it does leave sort of an invisible film on the skin, which is good as a barrier cream but I’m looking for something less filmy.
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Cosmetic76 said:hi yes I have. I agree it feels more airy and I quite like it. however unfortunately everyone I asked to test it said the cream feels like there’s candle wax on their hands after it absorbs. Would you have an idea how to make it feel less waxy? Suppose a bit more wet? I tried all sorts, olivwax, brassica alcohol, etc..Yes….OliveM 1000 is a very ….hmmmn…. not real nice feeling emulsifier. However I have found I can use it at 1% (in water phase) to give a very light feeling emulsion I make,…feel heavier and richer…but beyond 1% of a total package, I find it intolerable.
To make your emulsion feel wetter…add about 2% Pentylene glycol, and at least 1% cyclomethicone. Also adding a polymeric like Aristoflex AVC, which can help with the ‘fast break’ effect.
You mentioned you had tried Montanov 202…and I think you said it was sticky. I would suspect that is the balance of your formula…Not the M 202. It makes delightful lite, emulsions. If you are open to it…a 165 emulsifier would be a good one to try. It does not thicken much…so you have to thicken it.
Mont 68 is the heaviest of the Montanov’s I tried. I do not use it.
You also mentioned isoamyl laurate….that would have been a good choice to help reduce stickiness. I use it at 5-6% of most formulas…and supplement it with about 4% of additional similar items to make delightful textures.
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Cosmetic76 said:hi yes I have. I agree it feels more airy and I quite like it. however unfortunately everyone I asked to test it said the cream feels like there’s candle wax on their hands after it absorbs. Would you have an idea how to make it feel less waxy? Suppose a bit more wet? I tried all sorts, olivwax, brassica alcohol, etc..
Olivem 1000 is a mixture of waxes by its own. So it’s completely normal to have such a waxy effect. Me personally love this emulsifier so much, because it gives light emulsions with “moist” afterfeel. I’ve never used it in the fat phase, so I can’t tell the difference. I don’t know, perhaps you miss something or it’s a matter of the workflow. Recenly I’ve made a cream gel for men’s face with a 6% Olivem in the water phase, mango butter and Cyclomethicone, and a lots of humectants, such a - Sodium Lactate, Glycerin and Propylene glycol and it’s really fantastic. It’s very light, it spreads very easy over the skin, has a very quick absorbtion time and the most important - the feel on the skin is fantastic - the first few seconds there’s a bit of waxy feel, but then this feel dissapears and the skin is fresh.
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I think you both are correct that it’s my fat phase that’s definitely affecting the after feel too. This is due to the ‘natural’ status so I am not using silicones etc. Pentylene glycol might be a good idea to try, thank you. I’ll also swap to some ‘siliconey’ feeling oils too, like Meadowfoam rather than the heavy sunflower. I appreciate your suggestions.
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