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MEADOWESTOLIDE….Hype or something here?
Just came across this today…. I am a big fan of meadowfoam seed oil, so it caught my eye. Anyone used this….heard anything good? Does it make sense scientifically?
From the seller’s marketing machine:
The development of this estolide represents a new level of advanced ingredient technology. The estolide is a dimeric molecule, which is structurally sophisticated and functionally active. MEADOWESTOLIDE® provides measureable and meaningful consumer benefits
In skincare systems, MEADOWESTOLIDE® helps to adjust the hydration levels of the interstitial spaces and provides significant moisturization benefits. These benefits are often perceived as softer, more pliant tissue. Initial investigations suggest that the estolide will prove to be a very important agent in protecting skin from the damaging effects of a variety of common causes.
I suppose a creative marketer could write the same thing about Vaseline? -
19 Replies
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Your posts make me smile as for some reason we seem to get led down the same rabbit holes.. but at different times.I got a sample of Meadowestolide last year as the studies on it made it sound AMAZING. So I was quite disappointed when it arrived and it was a thick, sticky tar-like, strong yellow-coloured substance that didn’t do anything for moisturisation or skin feel. I tried it at 1% and didn’t try it again. It made the cream very draggy and sticky without having any positive effect on performance, and the yellow colour came through too. Presumably the products that contain it are using a much lower level.
Shame we live on opposite ends of the world otherwise I could have given it to you to try.
For the effect that is touted by Meadowestolide, you could try Pomegranate Sterols or Phyto-Oil C3 from Active Concepts/Formulator Sample Shop, or Phytosteryl Macadamiate. All work well at low levels (0.5% or less). Pomegranate Sterols provides long-lasting, deep moisturisation but is even thicker and tackier than pure lanolin.. and will reduce slip. It’s a completely different feel and performance to Acai Sterols which I know you already use. Phyto-Oil C3 stinks like plastic fake leather… which I think is from the fatty acids… but it heals skin immediately and I haven’t found anything as good at that… but I can’t get over the smell. Phytosteryl Macadamiate adds substantivity like Pomegranate Sterols but is less tacky and more elegant in feel.
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Another material you could try, that actually reminds me of Meadowestolide is AvenaPLex:
“AvenaPLex (Avena sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract) is a complex of skin identical lipids (including ceramides, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine) that delivers the short-term and long-term protection of aged skin. Thanks to its unique composition, AvenaPLex assists in the rapid absorption of skin beneficial molecules, supplements skin lipids, aids the strengthening of the dermis and helps prevent the loss of skin elasticity and firmness.”
It’s very thick, sticky and draggy. It had some positive effect on moisturisation but I would choose the three previously mentioned ingredients over it.
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Estolides are polymerised fatty acids: These are huge molecules and when theoretically thinking about it, I imagined Meadowestolide EXACTLY the way @helenhelen describes! It should be a good film former though and keep water in the skin longer (vaseline-like)… something your night cream might, at low inclusion rate, actually profit from (and the body it likely gives would set it apart from the day version).On the other hand, higher molecular weight hydrogenated polyisobutene (available also from renewable resources) might be a better option and comes in different grades. Check our Emulgade SUCRO (not sure if the HPI is actually of natural origin or petrochemistry derived) or Vitabiosol S. -
helenhelen said:Another material you could try, that actually reminds me of Meadowestolide is AvenaPLex:“AvenaPLex (Avena sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract) is a complex of skin identical lipids (including ceramides, phosphatidylcholine and phosphatidylethanolamine) that delivers the short-term and long-term protection of aged skin. Thanks to its unique composition, AvenaPLex assists in the rapid absorption of skin beneficial molecules, supplements skin lipids, aids the strengthening of the dermis and helps prevent the loss of skin elasticity and firmness.”
It’s very thick, sticky and draggy. It had some positive effect on moisturisation but I would choose the three previously mentioned ingredients over it.
Thank you for your detailed comments. Yes, I currently use Acai sterols to fill this gap, and it seems to work well. Just always open to new things….if they work better.
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Pharma said:Estolides are polymerised fatty acids: These are huge molecules and when theoretically thinking about it, I imagined Meadowestolide EXACTLY the way @helenhelen describes! It should be a good film former though and keep water in the skin longer (vaseline-like)… something your night cream might, at low inclusion rate, actually profit from (and the body it likely gives would set it apart from the day version).On the other hand, higher molecular weight hydrogenated polyisobutene (available also from renewable resources) might be a better option and comes in different grades. Check our Emulgade SUCRO (not sure if the HPI is actually of natural origin or petrochemistry derived) or Vitabiosol S.
Funny you should bring up polyisobutene….as I have it on the shelf….bought it for the day cream…but actually never tried it in formula (I have the 250). I guess when I tried it neat…there was no ‘ah ha’ moment….or parting of the clouds. I would love to hear you elaborate on Polyisobutene, and it’s uses….or maybe what it replaces. I think the other reason I never went to formula with it….it was a bit expensive, and I didn’t think it would enhance the INCI.
As you know…. I use acai sterols in the cream with hydrolyzed jojoba esters with a lite kiss of dimethicone, and have no lack of barrier function. (The night cream did have an elevated amount of acai sterols.)
@@ngarayeva001 I bought the Polyisobutene 250 after one of our chats….I would love to hear you also chime in on how awesome it is…and where it fits…
Thank You all.
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helenhelen said:
All work well at low levels (0.5% or less). Pomegranate Sterols provides long-lasting, deep moisturisation but is even thicker and tackier than pure lanolin.. and will reduce slip. It’s a completely different feel and performance to Acai Sterols which I know you already use. Phyto-Oil C3 stinks like plastic fake leather… which I think is from the fatty acids… but it heals skin immediately and I haven’t found anything as good at that… but I can’t get over the smell. Phytosteryl Macadamiate adds substantivity like Pomegranate Sterols but is less tacky and more elegant in feel.
Yes, I am using the acai sterols (at that rate)…and love what they have done. @Pharma had originally recommended the Mac nut sterols….but for the life of me…could not find them at any kind of reasonable price. (Would have really helped with my Hawaiian theme!)
I guess I did not realize there would be any type of textural / performance difference between the feedstock of Acai vs pomegranate sterols. I think I just went with the acai…cus it was cheaper.
I would love to hear you elaborate….on those differences in detail. Eventually….I will get around to finishing my night cream…..right now I am taking a formulating break….hehehe….good to be retired.
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Graillotion said:Yes, I am using the acai sterols (at that rate)…and love what they have done. @Pharma had originally recommended the Mac nut sterols….but for the life of me…could not find them at any kind of reasonable price. (Would have really helped with my Hawaiian theme!)
Haha @ Hawaiian theme! Yeah the Phytosteryl Macadamiate is fairly easy to get hold of from the German repackagers but is expensive.. at least double the cost of the Acai or Pomegranate Sterols.
Graillotion said:I guess I did not realize there would be any type of textural / performance difference between the feedstock of Acai vs pomegranate sterols. I think I just went with the acai…cus it was cheaper.I would love to hear you elaborate….on those differences in detail. Eventually….I will get around to finishing my night cream…..right now I am taking a formulating break….hehehe….good to be retired.
I was the same - I bought the Acai Sterols first thinking the two would be the same. But they are completely different. While the Acai Sterols is thick, it still melts quite easily on a warm spatula or on the skin with only light pressure and feels quite silky after eventually sinking in. The Pomegranate Sterols is much, much thicker. The consistency is like almost-hardened hot glue.. very firm and barely penetrable even with a warm spatula. It doesn’t really melt on the skin, you have to apply a lot of pressure to try to spread it, but then it remains on the surface as a thick, sticky layer (opposed to silky like the Acai Sterols).
In a cream, the Pomegranate Sterols is nowhere near as tacky as when it is neat. But it does add a final drag after all the other emollients have finished spreading (the Acai Sterols doesn’t have such a big effect on drag). It is much more substantial than Acai Sterols though.. and gives deeper and longer lasting moisturisation (it can probably be used neat as a lip balm like lanolin). I find all three sterol materials have different benefits though… I think my skin likes the fatty acids in the Acai Sterols and Phytosteryl Macadamiate. But the Pomegranate Sterols definitely gives the deepest moisturisation.
I’d be interested in how the “All Over Body Whip” in the attached example formulation feels with 2% Pomegranate Sterols as it sounds extremely draggy to me.. but maybe it’s not so bad when it’s in a very buttery mix.
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helenhelen said:
I got a sample of Meadowestolide last year as the studies on it made it sound AMAZING. So I was quite disappointed when it arrived and it was a thick, sticky tar-like, strong yellow-coloured substance that didn’t do anything for moisturisation or skin feel. I tried it at 1% and didn’t try it again. It made the cream very draggy and sticky without having any positive effect on performance, and the yellow colour came through too. Presumably the products that contain it are using a much lower level.
Wow, good to know! I had been eyeing at that ingredient for some time.I suppose Meadowlactone would feel just as greasy and tacky!Plant-based petrolatum alternatives are really hit-or-miss. If it’s not the greasy, tacky feel, it’s the terrible smell… and if it’s not that, it’s the solubility issues… and if it’s not that, it’s the cost… -
Hydrogenated polyisobutene would work anywhere where squalane does. I use it as an affordable squala replacement. Also it’s non polar, which means better stability, and versatility.
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ngarayeva001 said:Hydrogenated polyisobutene would work anywhere where squalane does. I use it as an affordable squala replacement. Also it’s non polar, which means better stability, and versatility.
I used it for the first time yesterday, in a lite lotion formula (at 1.5%). Texturally…I could not perceive a difference upon application. However, within a minute of application, I could begin to differentiate a more caring feeling on the polyisobutene hand and arm. It was applied before bedtime, and there was a definite advantage the following morning. I would attribute that to the enhanced occlusiveness it provided. So, it seems to enhance the occlusive properties of a hand and body lotion (at a high price).
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Graillotion said:…differentiate a more caring feeling… enhanced occlusiveness…What did I tell you
. BTW this effect will likely be even more pronounced in a colder and/or drier climate than yours.Why a high price? Your special island import fee? ;( -
Oops sorry I just realised my last reply the other day posted three times. I think it was because it didnt allow the attachment I was trying to add.. but it still posted the text. I thought the error would have stopped the text posting. Anyway, I ended up adding the file as a link in the third post.
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Pharma said:Graillotion said:…differentiate a more caring feeling… enhanced occlusiveness…What did I tell you . BTW this effect will likely be even more pronounced in a colder and/or drier climate than yours.Why a high price? Your special island import fee? ;(
I have only been able to source it at Making Cosmetics….where everything is sold at a premium price.
Well let me know about that colder climate thing….in about three weeks. 😉 (And how you like wasabi mac nuts. :blush: )
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This may interest you: I found a product that uses Meadowestolide in it. I didn’t try the cream myself, but I find the ingredients list interesting. It appears they overcame the greasy/tacky problem of Meadowestolide by strategically using caprylic/capric triglycerides, caprylyl caprylate/caprate, a little dimethicone, and likely a very soft petrolatum.Hmm, maybe I’ll try to knock off the formula myself… and have another project on my already long list of “things to try”!
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helenhelen said:I was the same - I bought the Acai Sterols first thinking the two would be the same. But they are completely different. While the Acai Sterols is thick, it still melts quite easily on a warm spatula or on the skin with only light pressure and feels quite silky after eventually sinking in. The Pomegranate Sterols is much, much thicker. The consistency is like almost-hardened hot glue.. very firm and barely penetrable even with a warm spatula. It doesn’t really melt on the skin, you have to apply a lot of pressure to try to spread it, but then it remains on the surface as a thick, sticky layer (opposed to silky like the Acai Sterols).
In a cream, the Pomegranate Sterols is nowhere near as tacky as when it is neat. But it does add a final drag after all the other emollients have finished spreading (the Acai Sterols doesn’t have such a big effect on drag). It is much more substantial than Acai Sterols though.. and gives deeper and longer lasting moisturisation (it can probably be used neat as a lip balm like lanolin). I find all three sterol materials have different benefits though… I think my skin likes the fatty acids in the Acai Sterols and Phytosteryl Macadamiate. But the Pomegranate Sterols definitely gives the deepest moisturisation.
Have you compared/contrasted those sterols with the “normal” phytosterols, like on BulkActives?I just have the acai sterols… I assumed that most sterols would be 90-95% Beta-sitosterol and the rest of it with other sterols and stanols.Maybe the pomegranate sterols have more of the sterols and stanols with higher melting points than the acai sterols? -
Many cosmetic ‘phytosterols’ are rather crude preparations partially enriched in sterol fraction or have been diluted with different lipids to get the costs down. That’s why these are (coloured) liquids/oils and not white powders like pure beta-sitosterol. And that’s also where the big differences between these products come from and not the ration of different phytosterols therein.
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Pharma said:Many cosmetic ‘phytosterols’ are rather crude preparations partially enriched in sterol fraction or have been diluted with different lipids to get the costs down. That’s why these are (coloured) liquids/oils and not white powders like pure beta-sitosterol. And that’s also where the big differences between these products come from and not the ration of different phytosterols therein.Thank you; that makes sense.And by not having it mostly Beta-sitosterol, they get to promote a “sexy” INCI name… increased perceived value and all that.
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@helenhelen
Just wondering for the Phyto-Oil C3, what percentage did you test it at? -
jemolian said:@helenhelen
Just wondering for the Phyto-Oil C3, what percentage did you test it at?I mostly tried 0.3-0.5% because the smell was so strong. Even at those levels the smell came through to the final product!
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