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Looking for advice on formulating a natural deodorant
Hi everyone,
I have been working with a cosmetic chemist on a natural deodorant formula for a few months now. He provides the formulation on paper and it’s up to me to source the ingredients and test the formulation. The issue is, he is not specialised in AP/deo formulation so many ingredients end up not working and have so far cost me a few months and a few thousands as small quantities + worldwide shipping can be quite expensive. Bottom line is, while the product is effective the feel part is not great. Every time I use it, it’s like applying a thick lotion to my underarms (I tried many many different roll on bottles). So at this point I would like to know if there are any cosmetic chemists here who specialise in formulation AP/deodorants and who can help reformulate without costing me an arm
Many thanks guys!!
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30 Replies
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Hi @Soso!I’m no expert, but I studied a little on the subject a while ago. Could you share your formula?Oh, and the customer requires it to be a roll-on? There are a few other types of formulations that can be useful if he’s open to changes (something anhydrous/solid can be cheaper and more efficient, depending on the case). -
I have seen this story recounted before. In those cases, the client hamstrung the chemist right out of the gate, with wanting poor choices, likes oils and butters included in a deodorant.
Typically, it is far easier to start over and reformulate, than try and make the poor choices fit a product they should not be in. Sometimes, a few $$$ poorer and a little life experience down the road, one becomes more open to different ideas.
Often times Indie brands will put tiny amounts of interesting sounding ingredients into a formula (which has no effect or sensory), and then someone trying to dupe their success gets caught up in their sleight of hand.
Your issues might get solved for free…if you post the formula.
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Thank you guys. Here is the formula (cold emulsion)
@Rafacasti, I don’t think it can get cheaper than this but happy to consider other options.Water 80.5%
Magnesium Hydroxide 8%
Jojoba oil 4%
Cyclopentasiloxane 4%
Sepigel 2% (Emulsifier)
Preservative 1% (Phenoxyethanol,Ethylhexylglycerin)
Essential oils 0.5%Note:
- I added D5 for fast drying to avoid using ethanol, however as it’s not natural, I would appreciate any other suggestions you have.
- Jojoba is added to tackle the residues left by the magnesium.
- Sepigel is not natural but does a fab job, much better than Xanthan.
- I kept total oils to a minimum as the more oils the thicker the formula but yet, it is still too thick and leaves a lot of product when applied on the armpits.
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If your client doesn’t mind making a solid, invest in a stick. I don’t know the prices outside of my country, so I can’t say for sure if it would work, but here’s a suggestion of ingredients for that scenario:
Coconut oil + Corn Starch + Beeswax + Sodium bicarbonate + Essential oil.
These ingredients are listed in one of Humble’s products (I don’t remember exactly which one, but you can check it out here) and it’s pretty minimalist. I can’t predict the concentrations, but it’s just a matter of testing and you can modify it as you prefer/please your client more. In fact, there are a lot of deodorant sticks with very few ingredients (natural-lovers tend to like this and also the “no water? no problem” thing)Regarding the formulation you showed, I would suggest you try decreasing the amount of sepigel to 1% and slightly decreasing the Jojoba oil. You see, this oil is a little “hard” and is actually considered a “liquid wax”, not an oil. Maybe there’s a possibility to replace it? Sunflower, Sweet Almond?Oh, and about D5, maybe it’s a little difficult but you can make an appeal by substituting for “Dodecane” (I like PARAFOL 12-97 RSPO-MB) and using the RSPO responsible chain as an appeal to your customer. -
@Soso - Based on this formula and your comments, you seem to have conflicting interests. So, to help you, it would be useful to know your end goal.
The conflicting interests I see are that you want a natural formula but you want the performance of a synthetic formula.
What you have right now is a poorly functioning, synthetic formula. Cyclomethicone & Sepigel (C13-14 Isoparaffin, Laureth-7, Polyacrylamide) would not be natural by almost anyone’s definition.
What product on the market are you trying to emulate?
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Water 80.5%
Magnesium Hydroxide 12%
Sepigel 2% (Emulsifier)
Preservative 1% (Phenoxyethanol,Ethylhexylglycerin)
Essential oils 0.5%
I would recommend that you strip your formula down to these components. Increase the Magnesium Hydroxide to 12% … you’re light at 8%. I will assume the essential oils your are using are Sage and perhaps Tea Tree Oil?Your formula is actually a snythetic formula, not at all natural.
It sounds as though your objective is to create a Natural deodorant for sensitive skin in a roll on format. If so, you would need to ditch the Sepigel and PE9010 and find natural-compliant replacements. Finally, there are a few other water-soluble deo actives that you could incorporate to complement the Magnesium Hydroxide.
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@Perry thank you very much for your input. You are correct, I would like the performance of a synthetic formula but with natural ingredients which is a great challenge to achieve. Most ingredients I listed have natural alternatives (which I ordered and hopefully will soon start trialling with) except the preservative due to the PH of magnesium.
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@MarkBroussard thank you for your reply. When I remove the oil from the formula I end up with a large white patch on my underarms. As a customer, I wouldn’t want to buy a product that leaves white marks like that.
For Sepigel, I tried many natural emulsifiers prior to that and none offered a good stability. I don’t have much choice due to the PH of the formula. I ordered one last natural emulsifier to try called GaleHemp (INCI: Polyglyceryl-4 Hemp Seedate (and) Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside (and) Water) hopefully that will work.
For the preservative, my chemist and I went through the whole list of available preservatives, again the PH of the formula is a big challenge so could not find anything else that would work. If you know if any natural and strong preservatives that would work with a PH of 10/11 I would appreciate your input.
I did not feel there was much difference between 8% and 12% magnesium but will retrial with a higher percentage of magnesium and see.
Finally, Yes I would love to add other water soluble actives, would you be able to share which ones you have in mind? The only one I can think of (I have little knowledge - I am not a chemist) is Undecylenoyl Glycine.
Again thank you all for your precious help
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If looking for a (more) natural replacement for D5, you could look at
Neossance Hemisqualane
aka: INCI: C13-15 Alkane
I make an emulsified deo, but it is a thick cream. I tried to replace the D5 with this, and I could not get the desired effect, but am told it is the closest of the ‘more natural’ options.
Just my opinion, but if I were going to make a water thin emulsion…. I would probably start my journey with sucrose stearate as a backbone. (Will probably need a little support.)
I also concur that using something like CCT vs a liquid wax, might be prudent.
Aloha.
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@Soso - Understood. You see everyone wants the performance of a synthetic but with natural ingredients. The problem is, no one can do it. Synthetic formulations were developed because “natural” cosmetics are inferior.
So, your choice to be natural is a choice to create inferior products in terms of performance. This is ok and many consumers won’t even notice the difference. But you need to adjust your expectations.
Ingredients that are marketed as natural alternatives should not be looked at as materials that perform as well as the synthetics. They just don’t. Neossance Hemisqualane might be a fine emollient but it won’t ever be as good as Cyclomethicone.
You need to compare your performance to some other “natural” product that is on the market. What natural deodorant that is currently being sold has the performance that you want?
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Hi - can I ask what pH a deodorant like this should be with Magnesium Hydroxide as I made one and found it very irritating after a few weeks use so I brought pH down on next batch to around 5.5 and it seems to work better as far as irritation goes but is it wrong to do this? I used a Citric Acid 40% solution to bring pH down as it was sitting at around 9% before I add the Citric Acid.
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By lowering the pH you are making the MgOH ineffective as a deodorant. The use of of MgOH and/or Sodium Bicarbonate in natural deodorants is to use the high pH of these ingedients to create an environment that is inhospitable to microbial growth.
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Ahh that makes sense thanks so much. Does that apply to other formulations that dont use such ingredients as MgOH ? I have been looking at making a spray deodorant just using spray pump glass bottle (for own use) and formula I have so far is (Deo Concentrate is from Making Cosmetcis USA and INCI is Zinc ricinoleate, sodium lauroyl sarcosinate, tetrahydroxypropyl ethylenediamine) - Any suggestions or improvements would be great to hear
It does smell nice but again not sure how effective it is!)Deo Concentrate
(USA)3.00% Bergamot Floral Water 38.61% Chamomile Water 30.00% Aloe Vera 1x juice 16.00% Polysorbate 20 5.00% Plantaserv E 1.00% Comfrey extract 2.50% Calendula Extract 2.00% Chamomile extract 1.21% Citric Acid 40% solution to bring to pH
5.5 to 60.28% Litsea Essential Oil 0.40% Total 100.00% -
When making a deo, you must have a detailed plan before you start, then pick the ingredients that match your plan.
So as an example….high pH (Yuck), you pick things that fit that format. Low pH (and your pits say….ahhhh) you pick from a different grouping of ingredients.
Some will pick to prevent the bacteria from producing odor to begin with (good idea), and some will think…if only I can trap the stink, before it reaches someone else’s nose (hmmmn…is that really a viable plan). And you pick ingredients accordingly.
So make your plan….then you choose ingredients that match your plan, not a hap-hazard shopping spree at the re-packer.
Enjoy the journey.
Oh…and take the pH much lower.
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Hi Graillotion so do you have a formula /list of ingredients you recommend? And would like a formula that isnt irritating but effective at preventing odor to begin with. What is the ideal pH then for underarm use deo to stop odor and not be irritating? I want a spray not cream or stick if possible? I am happy to make an emulsion and more like a lotion if that works better. I am only making for my own use ( for fun with benefits!). Cheers
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Squinny said:Hi Graillotion so do you have a formula /list of ingredients you recommend? And would like a formula that isnt irritating but effective at preventing odor to begin with. What is the ideal pH then for underarm use deo to stop odor and not be irritating? I want a spray not cream or stick if possible? I am happy to make an emulsion and more like a lotion if that works better. I am only making for my own use ( for fun with benefits!). Cheers
When I make deo, I target 4.4. However, my advisors have suggested I can go much lower. However, when down around 3.8…. I did get an occasional tester that felt irritation. At 4.4, the bugs are hating life, and I get no irritation.
You can send me a pm, regarding potential ingredients.
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pm? Sorry what does that stand for? and thanks for the advice on pH really appreciate that.
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PM = Private message.
At the top of the screen…there is a menu bar… Click on ‘Inbox’ and you can message people in the forum directly.
Aloha.
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Ok cool thanks for that - New here so didnt know. Cheers
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what about a spray dedorant ? with general Lol :
alcohol
Water
glycerin
Gum
H.E (rosomery / bergamote / lemon) -
The best natural deodorant I have come across in a spray format is Sage deodorant for Weleda … simple formula: Alcohol + Sage Oil. You could boost it with other water-soluble deo actives, but for a natural deodorant, it does a pretty good job.
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Thanks guys so the ingredients listed for Weleda Sage Spray deo from what I can see are : Alcohol, Water, TEC, Fragrance, Sodium Caproyl/Lauroyl Lactyate, Sage Oil,Ammonium Glycyrrhizate (and the ingredients derives from the Oil).
Being a home formulator I dont have access here to Alcohol here in Australia (besides for drinking - ie Vodka etc or only Isopropyl alcohol 70%) - but if so what would be the approx ratios for their listed ingredients -especially the Alcohol/ Water % I assume would be around 95% but how much of that Alcohol and how much Water. I can source TEC here from 1 supplier. Cheers and thanks for your input - appreciate the advice.
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Ammonium Glycyrrhizate is Licorice Root extract?
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Sodium Caproyl/Lauroyl Lactyate - I dont think I can get this ingredient here in Oz either.
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You can purchase denatured alcohol from New Directions Australia.
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