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Hair Serum Dupe - should I try an O/W or W/O emulsion?
I am trying to create a formula for a leave in hair product. I want it to be similar to a product that I was in love with but is discontinued. I will provide the ingredients list, which is my starting point.
There are many challenges in a dupe-formulation, but my first one is that I think they left at least 2 ingredients off their product labeling.
Q1: Do you agree?
I see NO emulsifier (Cetearyl alchohol is only a partial).
I see NO preservative.
IF FOLKS DON’T AGREE, well then I would LOVE to be schooled in how this formula is possible.
The product was thicker than the thickest conditioner & came in a small pump (possibly an airless type) so…
Q2: Would airless packaging be enough to account for NO preservative?
This seems wild to me. The product DID seem very expensive for what it was and fancy packaging and extra-sterile manufacturing might account for that. The whole line is pricy though. But going to that much trouble to avoid a preservative doesn’t make sense (to me). If this were one of those ultra-clean, terrified-of-preservatives?-then-we’ve-got-your-back brands…maybe, but not the case here.
Ingredients:
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Water
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Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose (soft touch feel)
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Cetearyl alcohol
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Cyclopentyl siloxane
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Dimethicone
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New Zealand Keratin hydrolyzed (internal strength),
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Argan oil (shields hair surface),
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Fragrance
I feel like that is enough to start a discussion. I’m either painfully clueless in some way OR my next task is to choose an emulsifier & preservative that plays nice with this set of ingredients. Because I don’t see a true emulsifier in there to look up and see if it’s more oil or more water-soluble, I don’t even know how to determine to try O/W or W/O. The Cetearyl alchohol seems like it could be paired with different things to go either way, so the fact that it’s more oil-soluble doesn’t feel determinate to me.
Q3: Any advise on working this up?
Ie. What would you try first, O/W or W/O? <b style=”font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit;”>Specific emulsifier suggestions?
Once I have at least an emulsion-type to run with I feel I will be on much firmer ground re: choosing a preservative and emulsifier & tinkering with formula ratios.
Thank you in advance for any kindness!
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6 Replies
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OP here…
Another reason I thought this company might be shady enough to leave ingredients off their labeling is that they also seem to have also broken the requirement to “list your ingredients in order from highest % to lowest.”
But please school me if I am mistaken and Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose makes any sense as a second ingredient. I have it’s typical use rate for cosmetics at <1%.
If that’s right at least I know I’m dealing with Oil-in-Water. Seems so very light on all the functional ingredients though. Could <1% of everything else in super-thickened water be the answer?
Having attempted to see just how much Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose I could get in water for fun, I tend to doubt it. I know the look and feel of that super thickened water AND the feel of the product. It IS possible though, I guess I need to try it.
Would that also account for no other emulsifier in it? At high shear, could such a thick HMPC gel be acting as a pseudo-emulsifier?
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by MX_science.
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If we trust the INCI, then this is not an emulsion, it is a dispersion of oils and silicones droplets in a water. HEC creates the thick gel that prevents those droplets from merging and separating out of water.
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This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by
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Airless doesn’t relieve preservation unless sterile making and packing or post packing sterilization ala retort of food canning.
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I’m inclined to agree with product being mislabeled. They could have gotten creative with the preservative- Naticide (claimed preservative) lists their INCI as “Parfum” https://www.ulprospector.com/en/asia/PersonalCare/Detail/101883/1380672/Naticide . P-anisic acid is another antimicrobial that should be listed as written, but it provides a scent and the company may have just rolled it into Fragrance. Or they did use a more conventional preservative and left it off. Or they really didn’t add anything… do you know why the product was discontinued?
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Thank you that is very enlightening information…
Unfortunately no, I am not sure why the product was discontinued. It worked great so maybe it wasn’t making enough money is my guess - it was a very high price for a small amount $36 for 50ml - enough for 2-3 weeks use.
They seem to have replaced it with a simpler product: fewer ingredients (Argan oil, Fragrance, Phenyltrimethicone), easier production (from a cream to mixing a few liquids) and more economical packaging (from airless pump to spray bottle).
I am not familiar with the smell of either of the products you listed, but materials data sheets claim:
Naticide has a <mark>pleasant, sweet scent with notes of vanilla and almond</mark>.
P-Anisic Acid acts as a fragrance ingredient, imparting a subtle, pleasant aroma to cosmetic products.
This fits with my memory of the product scent. Subtle. Pleasant.
So perhaps they properly labeled the product after all. If this explains the lack of a listed preservative, then maybe the carbomer 940 is acting as a pseudo-emulsifier. I’ve read it’s possible but have zero experience with it.
Perhaps that deserves it’s own post / question.
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You can stabilize heterogeneous mixes without conventional emulsifier/surfactant if the viscosity is high enough and some other conditions are right (density difference isn’t too big, oil droplets are small)- look up Stoke’s Law . Carbomer 940 is crosslinked and an efficient thickener so it’s very possible to create something stable this way, just depends on your oil type/amount and the rest of the system. But with every formula you should perform stability testing at multiple conditions to see if the product can remain stable, especially if you’re relying solely on that kind of thickener.
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