CDEA - Chemists Corner

Formulating

CDEA

Posted by Anonymous on May 24, 2019 at 8:41 am

what is the use of CDEA in preparing liquid soap?

ngarayeva001 replied 5 years, 9 months ago 4 Members · 14 Replies
14 Replies

ngarayeva001

Member
May 24, 2019 at 11:29 am

It’s a secondary surfactant that improves foaming and adds viscosity. I like using it in sulfate-free products.
Gunther

Member
May 30, 2019 at 1:32 am

ngarayeva001 said:

It’s a secondary surfactant that improves foaming and adds viscosity. I like using it in sulfate-free products.

May I ask how much CDEA do you usually use?
I found it leaves a sticky afterfeel over 1%
ngarayeva001

Member
May 30, 2019 at 5:43 am

@Gunther I use 2% in a shampoo. Haven’t noticed any stickiness. Maybe it’s compensated by other ingredients..
sven

Member
May 30, 2019 at 5:50 am

@ngarayeva001 thats about right 2% works well for me also.

ngarayeva001

Member

May 30, 2019 at 9:44 am

This is a shampoo formula. Total active surfactants 15%

INCI	%
Aqua	48.5%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Glycerin	1.0%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	20.0%
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate	5.0%
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate	17.0%
Cocamide DEA	2.0%
Polyquat 7	0.5%
Polyquat 10	0.8%
Amodimethicone	1.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.5%
Germaben II	1.0%
Crothix Liquid	1.5%

It’s very mild conditioning formula. As you can see it’s sulfate free and the surfactants used here are rather difficult to thicken. I use both CDEA and Polyquat 10 to add to viscosity. Crothix alone isn’t sufficient here.
By the way it will be clear if you heat the CDEA with a little bit of water before adding to other surfactants. Other than that it’s cold process.

ngarayeva001

Member

May 30, 2019 at 9:48 am

Another approach:

INCI	%
Aqua	40.3%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Glycerin	1.0%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	20.0%
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate	30.0%
Cocamide DEA	2.5%
Polyquat 10	1.0%
Polyquat 7	0.5%
Amodimethicone (emulsion)	2.0%
Germaben II	1.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.5%
Citric Acid NaCl	QS

Here the viscosity is achieved with NaCl (not much), CDEA and Polyquat 10 without any crothix. It is deeply conditioning formula for everyday use (active surfactant about 15%). I used 2.5% of CDEA here but I wouldn’t say it’s sticky either.

sven

Member
May 30, 2019 at 10:05 am

@ngarayeva001 i like the use of the sarcosinate.
ngarayeva001

Member
May 30, 2019 at 10:10 am

@sven you can exclude Olefin Sulfonate at all and the formula will be chrystal clear (it’s still clear but olefin sulfonate is yellow). But then it would be very difficult to thicken.
I love Sarcosinate. It’s very gentle and easy to work with. Zein protein and HET CAM tests show it’s somewhere in the middle (moderately irritating) but when you mix it with CAPB it becomes very mild.

Gunther

Member

June 1, 2019 at 1:16 am

ngarayeva001 said:

This is a shampoo formula. Total active surfactants 15%

INCI %

Aqua 48.5%

Tetrasodium
EDTA 0.2%

Glycerin 1.0%

Cocamidopropyl
Betaine 20.0%

Sodium C14-16
Olefin Sulfonate 5.0%

Sodium Lauroyl
Sarcosinate 17.0%

Cocamide DEA 2.0%

Polyquat 7 0.5%

Polyquat 10 0.8%

Amodimethicone 1.0%

PEG-7 Glyceryl
cocoate 1.5%

Germaben II 1.0%

Crothix Liquid 1.5%

It’s very mild conditioning formula. As you can see it’s sulfate free and the surfactants used here are rather difficult to thicken. I use both CDEA and Polyquat 10 to add to viscosity. Crothix alone isn’t sufficient here.
By the way it will be clear if you heat the CDEA with a little bit of water before adding to other surfactants. Other than that it’s cold process.

Interesting formula.
- Is that 0.8% active PQ-10 (in powder form)?
- What’s the emulsifier for amodimethicone?

ngarayeva001

Member
June 1, 2019 at 6:59 am

Yes, PG-10 is in powdered form, PG-7 is liquid with low active %. Amodimethicone is an emulsion: Amodimethicone, trideceth-12, cetrimonium chloride. I have chemically treated and damaged hair, so for me this amount of conditioner makes sense. Probably most of people need less.
Aziz

Member
June 2, 2019 at 2:10 am

ngarayeva001 said:

@sven you can exclude Olefin Sulfonate at all and the formula will be chrystal clear (it’s still clear but olefin sulfonate is yellow). But then it would be very difficult to thicken.
I love Sarcosinate. It’s very gentle and easy to work with. Zein protein and HET CAM tests show it’s somewhere in the middle (moderately irritating) but when you mix it with CAPB it becomes very mild.

Have any way to make yellowish AOS clear ?
ngarayeva001

Member
June 2, 2019 at 12:44 pm

Exclude olefin sulfonate at all. You will need more crothix to thicken it though.
Gunther

Member
June 3, 2019 at 4:52 pm

Doesn’t the high amount of CAPB makes it hard to thicken?
Or does CAPB help thicken sarcosinates too, like it does with SLES?
ngarayeva001

Member
June 3, 2019 at 8:07 pm

Salt has no effect on Sarcosinate. CAPB is there for mildness.