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antibacterial wipes
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Ha, exactly. What is frightening is that this was a presentation for a purchasing manager at a big box (american) store. The quote was for 60,000L of Alcohol hand sanitizer. We lost the bid.
The video they sent the purchasing manager is a demonstration of their gel vs another brand. One can be ignited with a flame, and other one does not catch on fire. That was the selling point.
What is really frightening is that I recognized the brand on the shelves of a nationwide pharmacy chain. It is a real mess.
Luckily, there is a large shipment of corn based Alcohol coming from the USA and it has brought down the price significantly. We will see if that changes the tide.
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Tried the following formulation
10 % Decyl Glucoside
15 % CAPB (30% active)
2% Cocamide DEA4% Carbopol Aqua SF1
2.5% Polyquat 7
0.12% BACToo viscous, almost paste-like. Great, smooth hand feel however hardly any foam. I will drop the Polyquat 7 to 2.0%. I will also test this formulation without thickener. Waiting on EDTA 4Na. Hopefully that will boost the foam.
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Very interesting.
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Tried the following:
10 % Decyl Glucoside
15 % CAPB (30% active)
2% Cocamide DEA2.0% Polyquat 7
0.12% BAC
Clear gel, no rheology modifier. I like Polyquat at 2.0%, significant improvement over 1.0% and similar to 2.5%.Viscosity needs improvement but not by much. Product “rinsability” is not as good, can leave a slight sticky feel between fingers if hands not rubbed vigorously enough. Hopefully the EDTA 4 Na will help.
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The Decyl is non-ionic, I don’t stock that… I’ll try an alternative then, I’ve got Dehyton G, that’s amphoteric, so I’ll try 10% sodium cocoamphoacetate instead. What’s causing the sticky feel?
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The same surfactant formulation using Carbopol SF-1 did not give a sticky feel. It does seem to “spread” and rinse-off as easily on the hand.
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What change did you make?
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I knocked out the Carbopol SF-1. I will be attempting another formulation with half the amount of Carbopol. Lubrizol recommends 4.0% min but I think that is not needed with this formulation.
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Well, that’s good news! SF-1 is not cheap.
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So 2.0 % Carbopol Aqua SF-1 is sufficient to thicken this formulation. I don’t think I would go lower.
10 % Decyl Glucoside
15 % CAPB (30% active)
2% Cocamide DEA2% Carbopol Aqua SF1
0.20% EDTA 4 Na
2.0% Polyquat 7
0.12% BAC
Great hand feel, doesn’t run off on hands, no stickiness and rinses off well.I noticed quite a loss of viscosity when adding the Polyquat 7. I will play with the percentage between 1.0-2.0% to find a proper target amount. I will also knockout the Cocamide DEA to see if I can remove it altogether.
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I will also knockout the Cocamide DEA to see if I can remove it altogether.
— But isn’t that what’s neutralising the SF-1? -
My apologies, I posted an incomplete formulation.
In order of addition:
2% Carbopol Aqua SF1
40% dH20
0.6 % Triethanolamine10 % Decyl Glucoside
15 % CAPB (30% active)
2% Cocamide DEA0.20% EDTA 4 Na
2.0% Polyquat 7
0.12% BAC
0.10 % Fragrance (Lemon grass EO)
Trace color (unmeasured)Water to qs
I will try to remove Cocamide DEA, reduce Polyquat 7 and possibly reduce Decyl Glucoside (cost issue.) I have not monitored pH at this stage (laziness) but will start to do so as well,
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Sounds good to me. I understand now. I had assumed the high pH DEA was being used to neutralise the carbomer. It’s a pity I can’t yet cooperate on development, my lab is in lots of cardboard boxes and plastic dewars, right now.
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So I knocked out the Cocamide DEA from this formulation:
2% Carbopol Aqua SF1
40% dH20
0.6 % Triethanolamine10 % Decyl Glucoside
15 % CAPB (30% active)2% Cocamide DEA0.20% EDTA 4 Na
2.0% Polyquat 7
0.12% BAC
0.10 % Fragrance (Lemon grass EO)
Trace color (unmeasured)Terrible idea. Milky and runny viscosity. Horrible hand feel.
Will try to lower cost by playing with CAPB and Decyl Glucoside concentrations.
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I’m surprised.
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Revised formula, using Cocamide DEA to neutralize carbopol. Final pH 7.30-7.40
In order of addition:
2% Carbopol Aqua SF1
40% dH209% Decyl Glucoside
3% Cocamide DEA
15 % CAPB (30% active)0.15% EDTA 4 Na
1.8% Polyquat 7
0.10% BAC
0.10 % Fragrance (Lemon grass EO)
Trace color (unmeasured)Fairly expensive to manufacture (~1.10 USD per kg) but the product is good. Main aim was to use as little carbopol as possible. Would love to hear any comments or suggestions.
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dH20?
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Distilled water. 40 % is the amount I used alongside the carbopol. The rest of the water was used to total 100%
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Instead of using decyl glucoside, why not try using ALS, which will thicken with the CAPB, to avoid using SF1 as an (expensive) thickener? Also eliminating the need for the DEA. You’d need to leave the final pH <=6 of course. I don’t like decyl glucoside anyway, it’s short flow like SLES, draggy.
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I am using Decyl Glucoside because it is non-ionic. I was under the impression that ALS is not compatible with benzalkonium chloride. Thats why I also left the pH closer to slightly alkaline for the benzalkonium. Is that an improper idea?
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Have you tried chlorphenesin?
It is both antiseptic and sterilizing.INCI:chlorphenesin
CAS: 104-29-0
Molecular formula: C9H11ClO3Main component: 3-(4-chlorophenoxy)-1, 2-propanediolSuggested usage amount: 0.1-0.3%
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Yes, using anionics with cationics is a no go. In this case it’s possible that it may render BAC much less effective or even ineffective as the affinity for biological membranes may be neutralized by the anionic.
Are you going to be testing your formula for efficacy?
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Damn, I had forgotten about that. What a nuisance.
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letsalcido, yes I will be sending the soap for testing. I rushed into these formulations with BAC so I am not completely confident yet, I am still in the development stage. Will 0.10% BAC be a sufficient preservative for this system? Is a pH of 7.40 sufficiently high ?
I am currently manufacturing spray sanitizers with a combination of BAC, Alcohol and EDTA 4Na as well as a multipurpose cleaner similar to concentrated Lysol. They will all be tested since we are aiming for compliance with the governing body here.
There are small villages where coronavirus has exploded, we are giving out bottles of our products as they hardly have anything to clean with.
Yes Belassi, I figure you had forgotten about that initial detail.
Also, I tried thickening further with 0.5% NaCl as suggested by the Lubrizol documentation - no result
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@Cafe33 I’m only familiar with the literature and mechanism of action, but not the most effective pH or whether it can be trusted as the only preservative as well (my assumption is yes, coupled with a high pH as with some antibacterial surface cleaners pH 9-10)
NaCl won’t thicken Decyl Glucoside and CAPB, you’re missing an anionic (which we know can’t be in his formula). You can try HEC maybe paired with the carbopol aqua, or a PEG.
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