Carbomer vs AHA&BHA - Chemists Corner

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Carbomer vs AHA&BHA

Posted by Abdullah on February 18, 2021 at 6:04 am

Is carbomer (speciality 940 and 980) a goog replacement for xanthan gum in this lotion for thickening and stabilizing the water phase?

Mineral oil or vegetable oil ~%10
Polyglyceryl 4 Laurate %3
Glyceryl stearate %1
Lactic acid %8 or salicylic acid %2
Xanthan gum %0.3
Preservative
Water

Final pH 4-5 adjusted with sodium hydroxide

Abdullah replied 3 years, 9 months ago 5 Members · 14 Replies
14 Replies

ngarayeva001

Member
February 18, 2021 at 7:19 am

1) carbomers aren’t working well with electrolyes
2) those two grades will not work at such a low ph.
if xanthan isn’t an option, use Sepimax Zen.
MarkBroussard

Member
February 18, 2021 at 1:50 pm

@Abdullah:

Carbopol Ultrez 30 activates in low pH systems (4.0 to 5.5). You might give that a try.
chemicalmatt

Member
February 18, 2021 at 10:04 pm

Yeesh! With lactic acid at 8.0% you’ll be working in the pH 2.5 range. No acrylate thickener - doesn’t matter how “Zen” - will operate at that pH.
Abdullah

Member
February 19, 2021 at 1:51 am

@chemicalmatti will adjust the final pH to 4-5 with sodium hydroxide
Abdullah

Member
February 19, 2021 at 1:53 am

@ngarayeva001 unfortunately Sepimax Zen is not available here.
Any other suggestions
Abdullah

Member
February 19, 2021 at 1:54 am

@MarkBroussard unfortunately Ultrez 30 is not available here.
Any other suggestions
Pattsi

Member
February 19, 2021 at 7:08 am

if you post the choices of thickeners you have or available to you.
maybe it’s will be easier for others to suggest
ngarayeva001

Member
February 20, 2021 at 7:36 am

Oh wait a second.. polyglyceryl-4 laurate and GMS… This system will lead to w/o. No acrylate based thickener would work here. Even xanthan shouldn’t. You need to reconsider the entire formula. AHA exfoliant won’t work effectively with oil as an external phase. Not sure about BHA but that’s not the point. The entire system isn’t stable and needs reworking.
Abdullah

Member
February 20, 2021 at 11:23 am

@ngarayeva001 Polyglyceryl-4 Laurate has HLB 11. Why would it make w/o emulsion?
Abdullah

Member
February 20, 2021 at 11:27 am

@Pattsi
I have tried guar gum, HEC, HPMC. They don’t make the system stable.

Carbomers 980 and 940 are available.

I don’t know what other options are available so i can check
ngarayeva001

Member
February 20, 2021 at 6:00 pm

I am wrong. I thought it’s oleate which has low hlb. Have you tried adding fatty alcohols. They often improve stability.
Abdullah

Member
February 21, 2021 at 1:43 am

@ngarayeva001 no i haven’t tried fatty alcohol yet.
Which fatty alcohol do you prefer?
Cetyl or stearyl alcohol
ngarayeva001

Member
February 21, 2021 at 7:13 pm

Cetyl because has better slip but it can be argued that stearyl is slightly better for stability.
Abdullah

Member
February 22, 2021 at 2:11 am

@ngarayeva001 thanks
For stability if i use a bit more cetyl it would be equal to stearyl. They are not expensive