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How to make a cleanser with Decyl Glucoside better at removing makeup?
Got a gentle pH 4 cleanser formula designed with acneic skin in mind, currently only using Decyl Glucoside as a surfactant, I like it, for most people it’s very mild (although there is a concerning trend of older eczematous people becoming more and more sensitive to it), and it doesn’t leave the skin feeling too dry.
But at 10% it’s not very effective against makeup, any way to boost its makeup removing properties without making it a lot “harsher”?
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40 Replies
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I am speaking as an experienced consumer rather than a formulator now.
I don’t think this problem has a solution. There are only two types of products that are really effective for removing make up: 1) cleansing oil/balm and 2) Duo-phased make up remover. Both contain oil (cyclomethicone in #2). The main reason for that, is the fact that make up in most cases is more or less waterproof. Foundation is W/O emulsion, so you need oil to dissolve it.
That is the main reason why so called double cleansing is so popular today. You start wil oil cleanser and follow by surfactant based cleanser.
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ngarayeva001 said:I am speaking as an experienced consumer rather than a formulator now.
I don’t think this problem has a solution. There are only two types of products that are really effective for removing make up: 1) cleansing oil/balm and 2) Duo-phased make up remover. Both contain oil (cyclomethicone in #2). The main reason for that, is the fact that make up in most cases is more or less waterproof. Foundation is W/O emulsion, so you need oil to dissolve it.
That is the main reason why so called double cleansing is so popular today. You start wil oil cleanser and follow by surfactant based cleanser.
I saw your simple formula of make-up remover but it does not contain the
cyclomethicone
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@smok, I shared many of my formulas here and not sure which one you are referring to. Are you referring to CAPB + glucosides facewash?
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Thanks @ngarayeva001 very good points, yet I believe some surfactants are better than others at removing makeup too?
The like dissolves like approach might be a good way to keep the formula gentle on the skin, perhaps if you emulsified some cyclomethicone into the formula?
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Any oil added to surfactants (silicone is an oil for the sake of this discussion) will decrease cleansing power. Surfactant with SLES will remove makeup better (yet not good enough) than the one with decyl glucoside but I guess this isn’t a solution that you are looking for.
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There are surfactants compatible with oils that create clear cleansing oil. Have you considered those?
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ngarayeva001 said:@smok, I shared many of my formulas here and not sure which one you are referring to. Are you referring to CAPB + glucosides facewash?i do not reaaly remeber when i mee itmabe is thisMineral oil 61.65%
Cetearyl Alcohol PEG-20 Wax 10.00% Wax
PEG-40 HCO Dehymul sf 12.00%
Stearic acid 10.00%
Cetyl alcohol 5.00%Blend of essential oils 0,50%
Conservative 0.75% -
ngarayeva001 said:There are surfactants compatible with oils that create clear cleansing oil. Have you considered those?
Maybe add a silicone and increase the amount of surfactant to offset reduction in cleansing whilst improving makeup removal efficacy? What emulsifier would one use here?
I have not considered cleansing oil as the evidence of helping with acne reduction is for low pH water based cleansers, maybe one can create a best of both worlds formula here retaining the water based low pH formula, with some additional oils to aid makeup removal and possibly refattening?
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@ngarayeva001 Ethanol based product can not be a good solublizer for make up ? i think about the idea cause wax and oil are soluble in it , just may Ethanol must have high purity for dissolving better make up.
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@smok, it’s a cleansing balm:
INCI % Mineral oil 62.25% Cetearyl alcohol and PEG-20 Stearate 10.00% PEG-40 HCO 12.00% Stearic acid 10.00% Cetyl Alcohol 5.00% Phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin 0.75% You don’t need Cyclomethicone for it. It’s a solid cleansing product that should be melted in hands applied on face and rinsed off.
Duophased makeup removers with Cyclomethicone usually look like this:
INCI % Aqua 44.35% Tetrasodium EDTA 0.20% Butylene Glycol 3.00% Sodium Chloride 1.25% Germaben 1.0% C12-15 alkyl benzoate 2.00% Cyclomethicone 48.00% Bisabolol 0.20%
This is a liquid product that should be shaken and then applied using a cotton pad. You don’t need to rinse it off.Both of the products use oil to dissolve makeup. Cyclomethicone can be considered oil for the sake of this discussion.
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@Zink, you can formulate a decent surfactant based face wash. I personally think that the Korean approach to cleansing is the best one. You use an oil cleanser and then surfactant based cleanser (I genuinely believe that you need both). In this case, you can add salicylic acid, make it low pH and market it as an anti-acne product. All I am saying a surfactant-based product will not be effective to dissolve water-resistant makeup. Keep in mind that face product should not contain more than 10% of surfactants and should be safe for eyes.
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@Fekher, you are right ethanol dissolves makeup pretty well, but imagine how much it dries the skin. Also, it’s not safe to use it on eyes.
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@ngarayeva001 it is just Ethanol based product wich i can think about glycerine vegetabeles oils to make it softer and may other input ☺ .
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Seems like there’s no obvious / easy way to do this, save it for the future then. My friends say that even cleansing oils aren’t that good and that they prefer to use makeup removal pads.
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Well if you want a bulletproof option it’s duophased cyclomethicone based makeup remover. The formula above is reverse engineered la prairie product. It will dissolve any makeup. Balms aren’t bad either.
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ngarayeva001 said:
Duophased makeup removers with Cyclomethicone usually look like this:
INCI % Aqua 44.35% Tetrasodium EDTA 0.20% Butylene Glycol 3.00% Sodium Chloride 1.25% Germaben 1.0% C12-15 alkyl benzoate 2.00% Cyclomethicone 48.00% Bisabolol 0.20%
This is a liquid product that should be shaken and then applied using a cotton pad. You don’t need to rinse it off.Both of the products use oil to dissolve makeup. Cyclomethicone can be considered oil for the sake of this discussion.
What prevents the 48% cyclomethicone from separating?
Is 2% C12-C15 alkyl benzoate enough for that? -
@Gunther, It must separate. You can find them in any department store. Water phase is usually colored blue. You shake it before using and then it separates back.
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Here’s an example
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ngarayeva001 said:Here’s an example
can I make it with carbomer as gelgel
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No, because I don’t think that gel will mix with cyclomethicone. You will have a mess in the bottle.
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Thanks @ngarayeva001
Are there any such commercial products sold in twin container, twin dispensing nozzle bottles?
As to avoid shaking before use. -
I have not seen such products. I think you just invented interesting an approach to packaging.
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ngarayeva001 said:I have not seen such products. I think you just invented interesting an approach to packaging.
<3 <3
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That component already exists. I have worked on several products using two chambers such as that. I believe that we purchased them from ABA Packaging in the US.
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I have seen many commercial products with two chambers. Old version of the double serum by clarins is the first one that comes to my mind. I suppose this type of product requires a specialised solution where water and oil are being mixed inside of the pump. Otherwise it won’t be practicle and you will end up with a cotton pad half of which is soaked with cyclomethicone and another half with water. Proper mixing isn’t crucial for serums as they mixed during application.
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