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WOW That’s a long LOI for a Shampoo!!
Hi Everybody!
I was trolling the beauty blogs and discovered talking about the Ojon line of hair products. Out of interest I looked up the the LOI for one of their products and holy moley their products are packed! It almost fills like the formulator just put a little of everything they had around the lab in the formula . Though I know that’s not the case (I’m being silly) and I’m sure their products are great, does a good shampoo really need all those ingredients to be a good shampoo?
Have my shampoo formulas been insufficient all this time?
Is there a good class or book on surfactant science (body wash, shampoos, etc.)?
A separate question I have is, how did they get 16 oils, a butter, dimethicone and glycerin in this shampoo and it still foams/works?!?!
Oils:
1. SWEET ALMOND SEED EXTRACT 2. SWEET VIOLET EXTRACT. 3. BLUE AGAVE LEAF EXTRACT. 4. BERGAMOT FRUIT OIL 5. SHEA BUTTER. 6. SOYBEAN OIL 7. TANGERINE LEAF OIL. 8. ORANGE FLOWER OIL. 9. CAMPHOR BARK OIL. 10. BABASSU SEED OIL 11. CANANGA ODORATA FLOWER OIL 12. PALM KERNAL OIL 13. SESAME SEED OIL 14. MACADAMIA SEED OIL 15. AVOCADO OIL 16. JOJOBA SEED OIL 17. MEADOWFOAM SEED OIL
Ojon Shampoo
WATER, AMMONIUM LAURYL SULFATE, DISODIUM LAURETH SULFOSUCCINATE, GLYCERIN, CETETH-20, COCO BETAINE, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, SWEET ALMOND SEED EXTRACT, SWEET VIOLET EXTRACT, BLUE AGAVE LEAF EXTRACT, BERGAMOT FRUIT OIL, SHEA BUTTER, SOYBEAN OIL, TANGERINE LEAF OIL, ORANGE FLOWER OIL, CAMPHOR BARK OIL, BABASSU SEED OIL, CANANGA ODORATA FLOWER OIL, PALM KERNAL OIL, SESAME SEED OIL, MACADAMIA SEED OIL, AVOCADO OIL, JOJOBA SEED OIL, MEADOWFOAM SEED OIL, STEARAMIDOPROPYL DIMETHYLAMINE, HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN, XANTHAN GUM, LAURYL GLUCOSIDE, GLYCOL DISTEARATE, DIMETHICONE, POLYQUATERNIUM-10, LAURAMINE OXIDE, GLYCERYL OLEATE, SODIUM LAURETH SULFATE, SALICYCLIC ACID, COCO-GLUCOSIDE, DISODIUM EDTA, PHENOXYETHANOL, METHLCHLOROISOTHIAZOLINONE, METHYLISOTHIAZOLINONE, LINALOOL, LIMONENE, CARAMEL.
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25 Replies
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First, you have to remember that many formulators choose to use “multi-ingredient” products in their own product. It’s probable that the list of oils is all in one or two commercial items. For instance, Trichogen LS8960 contains (INCI): Citrulline, Ornithine HCl, Niacinamide, Zinc Gluconate, Calcium Pantothenate, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Polyquaternium-11, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Arctium Majus, Acetyl Tyrosine, Arginine, Panax Ginseng, Aqua, Glucosamine HCl, Biotin.
- and this is a shampoo ingredient by the way (I’ve tried it and the testers reported zero effect).Probably the entire content of all those oils added together is no more than 0.5%It looks like it might be a nice shampoo. The oleate will give a refattening effect (probable usage 1%) and the salicylic acid will act to keep the scalp clear. The surfactant mix appears to be very mild. -
Well that’s quite possible since it seems to be a hot mix shampoo and let’s say it’s more of an emulsion in a shampoo bottle with all the properties of a good shampoo.
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I take it that this is a Sephora product?
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That’s actually not too bad for a luxury brand. This one though, is my favorite.
Water, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate, Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Glycol Distearate, Glycereth-26, Decyl Glucoside, Fragrance, PPG-5-Ceteth-20, Divinyldimethicone/Dimethicone Copolymer, Amodimethicone, Polyquaternium-7, Polyquaternium-10, Methylparaben, Propylene Glycol, PEG-55 Propylene Glycol Oleate, Carbomer, Linalool, C11-15 Pareth-7, Limonene, Glycerin, Trideceth-12, Laureth-9, Geraniol, C12-13 Pareth-23, C12-13 Pareth-3, Hydroxypropyltrimonium Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Wheat Amino Acids, CI 60730/Ext. Violet 2, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Methylisothiazolinone, Hydrolyzed Oats, Hydrolyzed Oat Protein, Citric Acid, Pentaerythrityl Tetra-Di-T-Butyl Hydroxyhydrocinnamate, Benzophenone-4, Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil/Sunflower Seed Oil, Fusanus Spicatus Wood Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ascorbic Acid, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol, Camellia Sinensis Extract/Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Melanin, Helianthus Annuus Seed Extract/Sunflower Seed Extract, Rosa Centifolia Extract/Rosa Centifolia Flower Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Extract/Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract, Sodium Hydroxide
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The last one: L’Oreal Ever Pure?
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Good morning (good afternoon) everyone!
@Belassi thank you for responding. I’ve said it before that I always enjoy reading your responses. If I lived in Mexico I would get to shadow you for a day or two
. Yesterday was my first time hearing about the Ojon line of beauty care products. I don’t believe Sephora sells them. I completely forgot about compounded ingredients and that very well may be the case here. I didn’t know that glyceryl oleate was such a multi-functional ingredient for shampoo. I usually use PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate as my re-fattening ingredient. I’m going to get a hold of some oleate to see the difference.@chemist77 I understand that it is a cream shampoo or an emulsified shampoo, but I would think with all those oils it wouldn’t foam as well as it does.
@Beaver Whoa that’s a huge list! How does it feel on skin and hair?
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@CosChemFan Actually I am doing something on the similar lines and so I know that it does foam and foams good, although I agree with you that that the common perception would be less foam. But with those two surfactants in the LOI and in good quantities it is quite possible to get good foaming.
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I will confess that, in a moment of exasperation (with Marketing), I once combined two finished products (after Marketing had repeatedly rejected my efforts to make something “halfway between them”) and, much to my shock, Marketing approved the mixture. At the place I was working at the time, once you had Marketing Approval, everything was set in stone. So, this product wound up with twice the number (but half the amount) of emulsifiers, actives, preservatives, etc. Later, I found out that this was not an uncommon practice. When you see a large or confusing LOI, don’t discount this type of shortcut as a possibility - many formulators, operating under typical tight schedules, don’t have time to weed out the useless ingredients.
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Just a side note- I’m not asking anyone to break this shampoo formula down or tell me how to re-create it. I’m very well capable of doing that myself. I was just very surprised to see products with such long lists and shampoos lots of oils. I was curious if this was a common industry practice. I was asking for my own personal growth as my formulas aren’t as…”big”. I also asked about resources such as classes or books.
I really wanted to let that be known. Hope you’re all having a great day and thank you for your wonderful responses when I do post.Regards,CosChemFan -
Ojon is owned by Estée Lauder. Almost all formulas from Estée Lauder contain dozens and dozens of ingredients. Maybe its marketing team think long lists are better from a marketing point of view.
Some marketing professionals believe that when a consumer see many ingredients he can think it’s a more “nobel” product. -
Update to this post:
I ended up making an “inspired by” version of this shampoo and got a pretty decent result. Granted I used a completely different surfactant (Sodium Coco Sulfate, Coco Betaine, Myristamine Oxide, Decyl Glucoside, and Coco Glucoside) and emulsification system, but it turned out well. It has very nice lather and foam with a nice moisturizing feel, but my skin felt a little depleted afterwards (washed my hands with it). I did learn that you can add quite a bit of oils (1% Avocado and Olive oil) to an emulsified shampoo and still have it foam really well. That’s a tool that I’ll put in my tool box. I’m sure if I played around with it a bit more I could get a better skin feel, but my formulation fell more on the ‘shampoo should clean philosophy’. -
I you add around 1% of a refattener such as Lamesoft you can get even better foam plus better skin conditioning.
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@Belassi I have some on it’s way per your suggestion.
Can’t wait to give it a try. There’s some PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate in the formula for refatting and emulsification of the oils, but I’m sure the oleic acid is really going to feel quite nice. I normally use the peg-7 GC and peg-50 Shea combo in my face wash formulas with great results.My ingredient list
Water
B5
Disodium EDTA
Glyceryl
Propylene Glycol
PEG-50 Shea Butter
Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine
Salicylic acid
Cocodimonium Hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed protein
Sodium Coco Sulfate
Coco Betaine
Myristamine Oxide
Decyl Glucoside
Coco Glucoside
PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate
Oils
Glycol Distearate
Crothix
Germall Plus
Lactic Acid
Fragrance -
many years ago, the company I work for used to sell an own-brand range of shampoos and conditioners for salons; the material lists on the production methods went onto a second page, and the INCI lists were about as long as War and Peace
they weren’t even particularly good products, they were just stuffed full of plant extracts and useless rubbish which did next to nothing
better still, no stability tests were done on them at the time, and we recently found out (nearly a decade and a half after the fact) that the pearl in the shampoos separates within two days if you store them at 30°C or higher
needless to say, we do not make this range any more! -
Looking at that list, I would do a knock-out test on the propylene glycol and the PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate to see how the foam is being affected by those two.
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@Belassi I’m certainly not committed to the PG or the peg-7 GC. I the PG was used to dissolve the salicylic acid which is always such a pain. Once my order of Glyceryl Oleate gets in I’ll replace the Peg-7 GC. I figured it’d make a good replacement.
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@Belassi I have used 3% GC 7 in my shampoo which has sulfates/amphoacetate and ecosmooth 100 for conditioning. Do you think the cocoate would really suppress the foam, I didn’t notice it but now since you mentioned I have to note it.
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@Chemist77 I was wondering the same thing. To my knowledge Peg-7 GC is a foam booster. I’m really curious to see what @Belassi‘s opinion is on that matter.
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My own experiments led me to reject PEG-7 GC as a shampoo ingredient. It’s going back a few years, but I think I was trying to use it for a skin conditioning effect. Later I tried Lamesoft PO-65 instead and that did exactly what I was looking for at about 1 to 2% usage. I rejected propylene glycol as a shampoo ingredient quite early on, almost certainly due to foam suppression. I don’t see it on the LOI of any commonly available commercial shampoo products either. I think the oleate you’ve got on order should give a good refattening effect.
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@Chemist77 you don’t find that cationic guar leaves a residue and suppresses foam?
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@CosChemFan I am still in evaluation stage and there are comments what you just mentioned but mine is hot process and I am still doing the knock outs. Although I have used some Polyox WSRs and they provide great gliding effect thereby neutralizing the drag. As for foam since I have high active matter the suppression goes unnoticed. I have in fact seen improvement with GC7, though I would still look into @Belassi comments.
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Bloom shampoo - 2 oz
Ingredients: Water (Aqua), Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Passiflora Incarnata Seed Oil, Passiflora Edulis Seed Oil, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Extract, Arctium Majus Root (Burdock Root) Extract, Panthenol, Hexapeptide-11, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Extract, Citrus Medica Limonum (Lemon) Peel Extract, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Citrus Limon (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Malva Sylvestris (Mallow) Flower Extract, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract, Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane) Extract, Dipropylene Glycol, Glycol Distearate, Hexylene Glycol, Hydrogenated Castor Oil/ Sebacic Acid Copolymer, PEG-200, Hydrogenated Glyceryl Palmate, Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Polyquaternium-7, Silicone Quaternium-16, Polyquaternium-70, Citric Acid, Hydroxyethyl Behenamidopropyl Dimonium Chloride, PEG-150 Distearate, Acrylates Copolymer, Betaine, Butylene Glycol, Butyloctanol, C30-45 Alkyl Dimethicone, Cocamide MIPA, Butyloctanol, C30-45 Alkyl Dimethicone, Cocamide MIPA, Cystine Bis-PG-Propyl Silanetriol, Disodium EDTA, Ethylhexylglycerin, Ozokerite, Phenoxyethanol, Phenyl Trimethicone, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Laneth-40 Maleate/Styrene Sulfonate Copolymer, Undeceth-11, Undeceth-5, Methylchloroisothiazolinone,Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance (Parfum), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200)
http://livonlife.com/product/bloom-shampoo-2-oz/56 ingredients
most of them useless or potentially destabilizing
and found in tiny amounts. My guess is that the 1% line is at or just after Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine (as it also has CAPB before).2 oz for $8!
Well, I guess they have pay sourcing dept overtime somehow.Sorry for bumping an old thread, just couldn’t resist.
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@Gunther the name is self-explanatory, the LOI bloomed into 56 ingredients for marketing ??
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Here, is what it would look like with ingredients that matter.
Water (Aqua), Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Glycol Distearate, Hydrogenated Glyceryl Palmate, Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Polyquaternium-7, Silicone Quaternium-16, Polyquaternium-70, Citric Acid, C30-45 Alkyl Dimethicone, Disodium EDTA, Ethylhexylglycerin, Phenoxyethanol, Sodium Hydroxide, Methylchloroisothiazolinone,Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance (Parfum), Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200)
But talk about overkill! The preservative system alone is ridiculous.
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Maybe they list the preservatives that along all the the separate ingredients?
At least the formulating dept took the effort to ask all the suppliers and list them. Even more overtime that needs to be covered by the $8 /2 oz price.
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