[Abdullah]

chemicalmatt said:

@David using SPDMA (Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, a tertiary amine) as the primary emulsifier as @EarthE has done here you will see a HUGE difference in viscosity when neutralizing with different organic acids as I noted. For simply reducing the pH of a cationic system comprising a cationic alkly quat or cationic polymer, not a great difference but citric is most likely to disrupt as he/she observed and for the reasons stated. Also, regarding EDTA or any other chelant in cationic hair conditioners, bear in mind those act as anti-redeposition agents primarily, preservative enhancers secondarily. In the case of hair conditioning you want to encourage deposition not discourage it, right? Thus I never add chelants to hair conditioners of any formulation medium. 

Does EDTA decrease the deposition of Amodimethicone from Shampoo or conditioner?

Shampoo is SLES/CAPB based.

Conditioner is cetyl alcohol, Polyglyceryl 6 distearate, Amodimethicone. 

[Abdullah]

Cationic surfactants are usually used between %1 and %2. No one uses %10 at anything

[Abdullah]

@Dreamer77 which country are you living in? 

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Abdullah said:

Can i ask which silicone oils?

I’m not saying silicones are the only thing which works (though they work great, especially if not used in emulsion form). The main thing is proper wound care.

Can you provide some more details on this part”especially if not used in emulsion form”?

Does emulsion form reduce the effects of silicone? If yes,why?

By forms other than emulsion, do you mean mixing silicone in oil or another silicone?

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

Dreamer77 said:

You can talk to me about lighting now…thank you all

It was a serious question, no reason to go cocky.

BTW the latest trick available here around against scaring is simply a blend of three different cp silicone oils (10 g for > 40$). The best thing is still the base cream and proper care, not fancy ingredients .

Can i ask which silicone oils?

[Abdullah]

@RedCoast i have %5 petrolatum that theoretically can prevent %98 TEWL. Isn’t that enough? 

[Abdullah]

David said:

@Abdullah we have made some stable conditioners with EDTA/citric acid/ cationic combination - the order of adddition is important though.

Can you write the LOI of one of your conditioners?
Better if it has SPDMA

[Abdullah]

you said these pics are 5-10 minutes after 1st application, not 2 weeks. If you can show me in a10 minutes video that the skin heals like that and the eyebrow grows like that, i will purchase your Product in bulk. 50kg at first purchase. 

If it is difficult to find something like this again, the eyebrow part would be easy. Shave your or someone elses eyebrow, apply the cream and let me see if it is growing back like this or at least half like this. 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks

[Abdullah]

Reduce the amount of beeswax

[Abdullah]

What is this expensive cream used for? 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

I don’t think there would be a difference.

Thanks

[Abdullah]

Thanks @Rockstargirl

[Abdullah]

Increase your preservative amount to maximum allowance

[Abdullah]

Pattsi said:

The least I have paid for IP is 10,000.
Ask for more 5,000 - 7,500.

What does ip mean?

[Abdullah]

Pharma said:

PhilGeis said:

…
Capryl hydroxamate is an iron chelator  - (like ZPT - another hydroxamate)- competes with hydroxamic acid siderophores such as those fungi use to solubilize/transport iron…

Not just that, it also complexes zinc and copper very well. The trick isn’t just about making micronutrients unavailable for microbes but complexing these metals within enzymes to render the whole machinery useless. At least, that’s the hypothesis. It’s also a medium chain fatty acid derivative and many of these have a certain inherent antimicrobial potential. However, having worked with hydroxamic acid derivatives, I’m highly sceptical and fairly concerned about their safety.

Thanks. 
So you mean CHA is a strong preservative when used in blends?

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis thanks. I have used in the past these blends. Benzyl alcohol and DHA @%1.1, sb and ps @%1.6.
In blind test i can say almost every time which one has one of these two preservatives and which one has Glyceryl Caprylate and CHA. The last one feels better.
benzyl alcohol and phenoxyethanol are acceptable if there is no milder alternative in reasonable price range and in amounts no more than %0.5. the rest should be milder preservatives.

I have used Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in Shampoo. It had the best feeling. Maybe because of its conditioning effect. But it is not compatible with chelating agents EDTA and sodium phytate and it is expensive too. so i am not using it in Shampoo anymore.

There is a blend called SymOcide PH which is claimed to be broad spectrum.
Phenoxyethanol  %0.6
Hydroxyacetophenone  %0.25
Caprylyl Glycol  %0.1
Water %0.05

So would adding %0.2 or %0.3 hydroxyacetophenone make this blend strong enough?

Glyceryl Caprylate %1
Hydroxyacetophenone %0.2 or 0.3
CHA  %0.1
EDTA or sodium phytate %0.1

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis interesting
this is a patented preservative blend by Inolex. Spectrastat™ G2 Natural MB
Caprylhydroxamic acid  %0.1
Glyceryl Caprylate  %0.75
Glycerin   %0.15

Why would they spend time and money patenting what is not effective enough? 

I also use Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl in with glyceryl caprylate in some lotions. What is your opinion about that?

What preservative blend do you suggest? (no formaldehye releasers, parabens and mi/cmi)

[Abdullah]

They are wrong

[Abdullah]

@PhilGeis that is good information to know. I will increase the amount of EDTA from %0.1 to %0.2 then. My preservatives are %0.1 caprylhydroxamic acid and %1 Glyceryl Caprylate in Shampoo.

Can you give some information on which one of these pathogens grow more in which type of products or environments?

- Staphylococcus aureus

- e coli
- Candida albicans
- Aspergillus niger

[Abdullah]

Decyl Glucoside is mild but it makes the Skin dry.
Reduce cationic guar to <%0.3

Increase your preservative to %1.

You need more anionic surfactant.

Is your sci completely solubilized in water?

[Abdullah]

I use 6:1 

[Abdullah]

@Pharma thanks 
@PhilGeis which microbes grow in Shampoo most?

The ingredients are surfactants, polyquaternium 10, essential oil, NACL, and Amodimethicone in near future. 

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

You have to understand that terms like Night Cream and Day Cream are marketing terms. There is no scientific definition. It’s just defined by what people expect. 

Cyclomethicone is added to ingredients to get the benefits of silicone (shine, slickness, smoothness) without the downside of building up on hair. In skin products it can make the product feel lighter than say a dimethicone I suppose but it takes enough time that you might not notice that over time.

I doubt you would see much benefit if you’re already using high end emollients.

When it doesn’t stay in hair like dimethicone does, will it’s effects like shine, slickness, smoothness remain there when all Cyclomethicone has evaporated? 

[Abdullah]

I was also trying to make gentle shampoo with APG but it was not gentle and not effective. As @Perry suggested i used SLES, CAPB and polyquaternium 10. Now i am selling it and it is the mildest Shampoo available where i live. Thanks Perry. 

At What ratio AOS/CAPB are you using and can it be thickened with sodium chloride?