Abdullah
Forum Replies Created
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I also thank all the people who teach us good information and share there knowledge with us
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@MarkBroussard Thanks
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Graillotion said:abierose said:@Abdullah if it isn’t compatible, why are there so many formulations using these ingredients together? Here’s a few I found via a Google search:https://goop.com/ursa-major-let-s-go-shower-kit/p/
If they are incompatible, would using them together create any negative and perceivable issues? Or would using them together make the sodium phytate not work as a chelator? I have tried to find definitive information on whether or not they are incompatible ????♀️
You are assuming these brands know what they are doing.
And maybe they do know what they are doing, but are playing coy…. They know some astute shoppers will want to see a chelator on the label….so they add one at .00001% to satisfy that group. Or….and more probable….clueless. One cannot assume these companies all have access to the likes of pharma in their formulating room.
Per an earlier thread of mine….some of the great minds on the site suggested that GLDA be used (best choice of the bad choices) with cationics. Even it has some conflict, so it was recommend at a much lower rate. I use it at half the typical rate in my latest cream.
Oh…and it was suggested that sodium phytate was about the worst choice in a cationic situation.
Yes. 3 thing can be.
1. They know these are incomparable. They make a product that has some good performance. They include very tiny amount %0.0001 or less of these incomparable ingredient just to add the name on label to mislead the companies that like their product and try to make the same thing.
2. They don’t know they are incomparable. In order to see an incompatibility between two ingredients you have to use just those two and see what happens when they are in liquid form.most don’t waste the raw material by checking compatibility of each 2 ingredients like This. If you use BTMS with a chelating agent you won’t notice the incompatibility because it has fatty alcohol and directly increase the viscosity. So you would not see how the surfactant reacts with chelating agent. You wouldn’t know if the chelating agent is working or not. You wouldn’t know if all of surfactant is working or some of them has been inactivated. But if you use a standalone surfactant like SPDMA, you can see that it completely dissolve in water but if there is chelating agent in water they form insoluble salt on top of the water that can not be dissolved in water. That is how you know something is not working.
3. They know how to use these two together and other companies and chemists don’t know. -
@MarkBroussard The usage rate of this BASF SA+ acacia gum is up to %3 and SA is up to %2. So if i use %2 SA with %1 acacia gum, would it be the same as this product from BASF?
I mean in solubility. -
@MarkBroussard what about exfoliation powder?
Would there be any difference in exfoliation powder of dissolving SA in these two ways if the final pH is 4 in both ways?
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@abierose i don’t know how they are doing it.
When I use chelating agents even citric acid with cationic surfactants they form insoluble salt. That effects the finall feeling of product. Surfactant also doesn’t work properly and maybe chelating agent too. -
@jemolian sodium phytate is not compatible with cationic surfactants.
Do you know any chelating agent other than caprylhydroxamic acid which is not anionic?
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@chemicalmatt @MarkBroussard thanks.
I am using it in a leave on product. The method is i add salicylic acid to water, add 0.29g sodium hydroxide for each gram of salicylic acid to dissolve it. When dissolved then bring the pH down to 4 with citric acid. Would dissolving salicylic acid this way be equal effective as if i dissolve it with butylene glycol and adjust the pH to 4?
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Use it with another Preservative.
At that pH you may use it with Ethylhexylglycerin or caprylyl Glycol or Paraben or caprylhydroxamic acid.
I don’t know other preservatives that can be combined with phenoxyethanol and effective at high pH. -
Tea tree oil at that amount is not the problem.
The problem is the Product is contaminated because the weather is hot and this product doesn’t have preservative.
Increase the phenoxyethanol to %1 and see if the problem is solved.
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Allantoin is also soluble in surfactants. I am using it in lotion @ %0.5 without any problem. For system that doesn’t have surfactant and the solubility would be less than %0.5.
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@Paprik may i ask why pH 5.5 is more skin friendly while pH of skin itself is 4.7?
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Use phenoxyethanol.
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@abierose @Perry thanks
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@Perry @Graillotion you are right but i wanted to know this specific answer.
I thought stearyl and cetearyl increase the viscosity more than Cetyl Alcohol because they have higher melting point but yesterday i saw this post on makingskincare.com website.
Stearyl alcohol produces a whiter and more opaque product due to it’s longer carbon chain length. Cetyl alcohol breaks more easily when applied so gives a quicker spread and can hold onto more water than stearyl alcohol as it is more hydrophilic. This results in a higher gel phase which means a higher viscosity. However stearyl alcohol has a different crystalline structure and is less polar resulting in a a more stable viscosity, unlike cetyl alcohol whose viscosity can increase over time.
I currently use cetearyl alcohol 30/70.This formula
Petrolatum %5
Coconut oil %2
Dimethicone %1
Polyglyceryl 6 distearate %1
Glyceryl stearate %1
Cetearyl alcohol %3
Glycerin %20
Preservative, essential oil and water.
pH 5Would the viscosity increase or decrease if i use Cetyl Alcohol instead of cetearyl alcohol?
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At what percentage have you used geogard ECT and how old is your son?
I also don’t like benzyl alcohol on my skin.
You can use a blend of phenoxyethanol with other preservatives.
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They reduce the viscosity.
I wouldn’t use cmea more than %1or 2. -
That is not homogenizer. The least expensive lab homogenizer is around $500.
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@chemicalmatt thanks
It is%5 CAPB= %1.5 active surfactant
%3 lauryl Glucoside= %1.5 active surfactant
%10 AOS= %9 active surfactant.
Eo= essential oil lavender.Should I increase the amount of surfactants? It would become %18 active surfactant.
Guar gum was in this formula with SLES to stabilize EGDS. As this one was opaque it self i didn’t use EGDS in it. I made sample without guar gum too. Same problem.
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@chemicalmatt thanks. I wanted to add surfactants first and then guar gum and cationic guar gum. It was more convenient this way. So now i should add ALS after adding guar gums and adjusting there pH.
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@jemolian thanks
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Is it %15.5 powder AOS or liquid?
How is the foam of it?
Does it make clear Shampoo or opaque?I am recently working on it and salt decreases the viscosity.
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Argan oil doesn’t have anything special to justify the high price.
Hemp seed oil doesn’t feel oily no matter how much of it you put to skin but it doesn’t regulate the sebum. If you have oily skin you have oily skin.
Jojoba oil reduces the sebum production. I mean noticable reduction. If you have oily face and use it for a few weeks and then stop using it your face will be dry if you don’t put some oil or lotion on it.I had severe ance and very oily face and it’s scares are on my face. But Now I don’t get acne. I think acne is age related. I am 27 now.
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Remove glycerin and decyl Glucoside.
Increase glutamate to %20 or more -
@jemolian can we purchase this book alone or we should purchase their whole program to get the book?