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w/o formulation advise
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OliviaLeigh said:Okay so here goes :#Heated Oil phase 75
Cetearyl alcohol 5%
Candellia wax 5%
Rose wax 1.5%
Murumuru Butter 8%
Mango Butter 5%
Shea Butter 3%
Grapeseed Oil 16%
Camellia Oil 4%
Coco-caprylate-caprate 5%
Arrow Root 1%
Lecithin (sunflower) 2%
PG4-O 8%
Heated Water Phase 65
Hydrosol 20%
Distilled water 10%
Rice starch 1%
Glycerite 1.5%
Cool Down Phase 40
Preservative 12 1%
Sea Buckthorn CO2 0.5
Sodium Hyaluronate Gel 2.5 (1% HA)
Eo blend will be added later under 1%
Sorry but if it’s w/o there’s a lot that is wrong with it. Let’s start with challenging the concept: do you actually need w/o? You can make an occlusive o/w with very high oil phase.
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One important thing, if that’s w/o preservative added to cool down phase won’t be very effective: your external phase is oil. You need to preserve water.
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@ngarayeva001- Hi!
Hmmm I’m a stubborn experimenter but I fear you may be right! I wanted a balm like consistency, a luxurious type feel but using oils and balms with quick absorption rates and then adding the extra benefit of hyaluronic acid and glycerites - Ive just source a smaller molecule HA too, but as I design Ive also just started working my way though an advance cosmetic science formulating course im doing and Im finding more and more problems to overcome. What would you suggest? Thanks so much for you help. Olivia -
Adding to ngarayeva001’s good comment, be aware you may have trouble passing a preservative test whatever preservative you use as inoculum droplets may not encounter water droplets with preservative. That should not be considered a show stopper.
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Oh what to do? so Im going to add magnesium sulfate to the water stage, do i add the preservative too? Would packaging the balm in a tube help?
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What presrvative do you propose?
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I usually use Preservative 12 ( Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin ) Just seen its called preservative E now! or Preservative Eco ( Benzyl Alcohol, Salicylic Acid, Glycerine, Sorbic Acid ) I dont know if its just me but I prefer Pres E to Eco as I think Eco is a little irritating, nothing major - may have to move back to eco for cosmos certificate.
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your water phase pH?
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last I checked I think it comes in at 5.3 …havent adjusted
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Hang on scrap that!
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Thats when I was being a plonka1 I tried to check it like a normal O/W
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Ill have to make up the water phase and get back
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I guess many people here know of my weird obsession with w/o emulsions. I always advise against w/o because you must have a reason to take w/o route. For some, that reason is creating a formula for a client. For me, it’s just a weird desire to fight against the second law of thermodynamics (knowing well in advance who is going to win). Jokes aside, happy to help you to fix w/o formula if you are persuaded it’s what you need. I think you are just after an occlusive o/w or maybe even a balm, not actual w/o. They are fussy. Took me hundreds of attempts to get them right. Get them right here meaning not separating for over 18 months stored in a cupboard and looking somewhat decent under a microscope. I am a hobbyist and don’t run proper stability tests.
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Some tips and tricks:
1) think through your preservation system. I formulate in my kitchen and although I bathe my working area in bleach and use outrageously overpriced steam-distilled water (which I also boil just in case) I can only trust “toxic chemicals” when it comes to preservation. Phenonip, phenonip, phenonip. Phenonip is a blend of parabens and phenoxy. Parabens are prone to partitioning to the oil phase, so you want to heat it. That’s why I am not big on cold process w/o. Even if I have nothing to melt, I heat my water to ensure parabens don’t migrate to the oil phase.
2) I generally prefer PEGs but there are actually pretty decent PEG-free w/o emulsifiers. I like Emullium Illustro by Gatefosse, PolyAquol VO4 and Isolan GPS. Having said that I am still a big fan of w/si and Dow’s Formulation Aid 5225 and PEG-10 Dimethicone are great. PEG-30 DPHS with magnesium stearate in the oil phase makes a beautiful texture and is more or less easy to make right from the first attempt.
3) Always start with the supplier’s suggestions when it comes to %. When it comes to the process, I follow the standard w/o approach: overhead stirrer, water added by drops (takes ages), homogenise when cools down. If viscosity increased after you applied high shear, you did it right (not a rule but it’s usually a good indicator).
4) Already been suggested by more experienced people but I will repeat: salts in the water phase, gellants in the oil phase. Magnesium stearate is a good one (needs to be heated to dissolve). I don’t like the waxy feel, so often search for alternative solutions to several % of wax in the oil phase, but that is playing with fire. My current favourite is a combination of Stearyl Dimethicone and silica (or silica dimethyl silylate). Obviously, 3-5% of hydrogenated castor wax is a much more reliable approach.
5) skip water phase gellants unless you are making seppic’s gel trap (which is weird anyway).
6) Start simple. Don’t overload it with actives. Your goal is to make it stay together. Only start adding actives after you “know your formula”.
7) Be thoughtful of emollients (oil phase). I would stick to the supplier’s recommendations in the beginning.
I probably forgot something, but if you go w/o a route you can ping me.
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@ngarayeva001 Omg I think you’re great! I’m becoming obsessed over this too, and in a way it’s been good because it’s helping me learn so much! so far it’s the texture I’ve loved and feel once it’s sunk in the skin … as was mentioned above maybe I’ve created another type of emulsion all together? Lasagna emulsion:D I’m going to take on board all you and everyone else has advised especially this amazing info you’ve just sent me now ???? and give it a last attempt and then turn it into a classic o/w … I’m sure I’ll be in touch again soon! ???? Thank you ????
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