Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Sulfate-free Shampoo Seperation

  • oldperry

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 3:12 pm

    Without an ingredient list there isn’t much help we can give.

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 8:13 pm

    Sure.

    I cant share % but I can provide the materials used

    PHASE A
    -DEIONIZED WATER,
    -ACRYLAMIDE. ACRYLAMIDE/COPOLYMER

    PHASE B
    -PRESERVATIVE 

    PHASE C
    -COCAMIDOPROPYL HYDROXYSULTAINE
    -POLYQUATERNIUM 7
    -ACETAMIDE MEA
    -SODIUM C14-16 OLEFIN SULFONATE

    PHASE D
    -PERSEA GRATISSIMA ( AVOCADO ) OIL
    -HYDROLYZED WHEAT PROTEIN
    -PRUNUS AMYGDALUS DULCIS OIL 

    PHASE E
    -GLYCOL DISTEARATE (AND) LAURETH-4 (AND)COCOAMIDOPROPYL BETAINE -PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate (and) PPG-2 Hydroxyethyl Cocamide (and) Water, 

  • oldperry

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 10:25 pm

    The number one thing to do is to get rid of the oils.
    Shampoos are supposed to clean hair which means remove oils.
    Putting an oil in your formula is just making it a less effective shampoo & leads to separation.

  • ketchito

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 1:31 pm

    @DreaNkenna Could you describe precisely what you’re experiencing as phase separation? If you have sedimentation, that can be your pearlizer not having enough support to be suspended (Versathix doesn’t give much resistance to shear). If you see creaming (a white layer on top), that might be the acrylamide opacifier.

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    Perry said:

    The number one thing to do is to get rid of the oils.
    Shampoos are supposed to clean hair which means remove oils.
    Putting an oil in your formula is just making it a less effective shampoo & leads to separation.

    Oils are in at negligible levels. Basically the whole phase D is there as callouts.

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 2:26 pm

    ketchito said:

    @DreaNkenna Could you describe precisely what you’re experiencing as phase separation? If you have sedimentation, that can be your pearlizer not having enough support to be suspended (Versathix doesn’t give much resistance to shear). If you see creaming (a white layer on top), that might be the acrylamide opacifier.

    hmm ok. well at about 6 months there is creamy at the top, but by 12 months  the sediment has fallen to the bottom. Honestly, the product still appears to be pearlized a bit, so the acrylamide may be the issue

  • oldperry

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 3:42 pm

    I had this same problem with a pearl system years ago. Using a Carbomer (EDT 2020 I think), that helped suspend the pearl and kept the formula stable.

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 8:21 pm

    Perry said:

    I had this same problem with a pearl system years ago. Using a Carbomer (EDT 2020 I think), that helped suspend the pearl and kept the formula stable.

    Ok that actually makes sense. Do you think this woudl effect the overall rheology?

  • oldperry

    Member
    August 12, 2021 at 1:50 am

    Not much.  But you’ll have to test to find out.

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    December 8, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    I ditched the Acrylimide cationic and opted for polyquat-10 instead. I also got rid of the cold process pearlizer and went to regular glycol disterate. I am just now trying to hone in on a consistent thickener. I can’t believe how hard doing this has been.

  • abdullah

    Member
    December 9, 2021 at 2:05 am

    Let me tell you something 

    From the LoI it looks that it is a pretty basic non conditioning shampoo that most people would not like. If you give it to someone to compare it with another shampoo they would like that other shampoo. And all the chemists here know better than me that how this shampoo will be in cleaning, foaming and conditioning and no one would copy it. So don’t be afraid of sharing the percentage ;)

    Because without percentage people don’t know how much of an ingredient you have added there as perry thought you may be adding to much oil.

    If you are adding too much EGDS that will be the cause. Reduce it to 0.5-2% 

    If you are adding vitamin e or an extract and thinking it is preservative your product may be contaminated and the cause of this problem. 

  • DreaNkenna

    Member
    December 9, 2021 at 4:01 am

    Well unfortunately I am under an NDA so even if no one wants this formula I cannot share. Believe it or not this is one of my customers best sellers that they sell several million units of it annually. Curly coarse curl patterns tend to be naturally dry and benefit greatly frum cationic/conditioning agent rich products…even shampoos. These products tend to be tricky because conditioning shampoos are a bit of an oxymoron. Either way thanks for the advise. I’ve already decreased the egds to below 0.25%

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