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Natrosol/HEC not working well
I am trying to thicken a body wash with HEC and it is not forming a gel. It goes from white powder to clear grainy stays very grainy. Stick blender with surfactants did not go well, magnetic stirrer neither. Heat makes no difference. Here is the formula
25% cocamidopropyl betaine
30% coco glucoside
33.33% water
5% glycerin
1.2% HEC
5% fruit acid complex - *Water & Vaccinium Myrtillus Fruit/Leaf Extract & Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane) Extract & Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Fruit Extract & Citrus Limon (Lemon) Fruit Extract & Acer Saccharum (Sugar Maple) Extract*
0.5% germall plus liquid
Ph 4.3
I tried the slurry with glycerin and making the gel first with the water and blending that with surfactants, but it only works without surfactants.
Any help is greatly appreciated. -
12 Replies
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HEC hydrates most quickly in neutral or alkaline conditions, is thinned by surfactants, and is generally slow to hydratethe best material of that family for thickening bodywashes is hydroxypropyl methyl cellulose, which also acts as a foam booster -
Thank you. I’m not having an easy time finding hydroxypropyl methylcellulose in Canada. Trying siligel now. Crothix is the only think I could think of that is easy to find (PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate (AND) PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric
Glycerides (AND) Water). I didn’t get HEC to use with this formula specifically just wanted to see if it would work. Xanthan gum is the only other alternative I have that I usually use for body wash but one of the suppliers recommended using nonionic ingredients with the fruit acid complex. -
Update. Siligel is working. Alternatives still welcome.
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Hec is not compatible with too much glucoside
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I was suspicious of that too. Siligel thickened faster in the shampoo I made and took longer for the body wash too.
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HEC is not the best choice for other surfactants as well.
HPMC, xanthan gum, and carbomer are a few alternatives -
Carbomer is next. Siligel is separating in the past 2 days.
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blueberry said:Carbomer is next. Siligel is separating in the past 2 days.
Carbopol ETD 2020 is a good option in this case
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I do not suggest using Carpopol, Sepigel or any other acrylic here. Your issue is CAPB always carries 5.0% sodium chloride, so you are attempting to overcome 1.25% NaCl, which will affect all acrylic thickeners and even HEC. Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) is your best bet, as @Bill_Toge suggests, although lowering all that CAPB, the salt it carries, and all the glucoside will help a LOT. @Abdullah is correct: those glucoside surfactants crash HEC and many other cellulosics including HPMC! Sugar & cellulose do not like each other? Who knew? (Also, what’s with that glycerin in a surfactant cleansing product? How many times must I rant on about this?! STOP this madness!!)
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Carbopol ETD 2020 should handle that amount of NaCl.
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chemicalmatt said:I do not suggest using Carpopol, Sepigel or any other acrylic here. Your issue is CAPB always carries 5.0% sodium chloride, so you are attempting to overcome 1.25% NaCl, which will affect all acrylic thickeners and even HEC. Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) is your best bet, as @Bill_Toge suggests, although lowering all that CAPB, the salt it carries, and all the glucoside will help a LOT. @Abdullah is correct: those glucoside surfactants crash HEC and many other cellulosics including HPMC! Sugar & cellulose do not like each other? Who knew? (Also, what’s with that glycerin in a surfactant cleansing product? How many times must I rant on about this?! STOP this madness!!)
I’m basing a lot of my formulas off what I can learn for free with google. My skin is sensitive and I’m defiantly struggling in the soap department. I wanted more foaming compared to what I had at 20% CAPB and some type of aha for exfoliating. I’m not sure where to go from here.
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You can add some anionic (they have synergy with CAPB). Alternatively, you could use an amine oxide like Lauramine or Cocamine oxide.
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