Keratine - how do you produce it?

Tagged: @oldperry, #pKa

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Keratine - how do you produce it?

Benyamin replied 11 months, 3 weeks ago 14 Members · 89 Replies
- @oldperry
- #pKa

Abdullah

Member
March 22, 2022 at 2:36 pm

Zahra said:

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know.
I was ike this at first too.

I think it is better to continue mixing surfactants and some emollients

It may work better than before.

And I will go according to your opinions.

As Mr. Perry said you are out of the knockout method

And the combination of several substances

I used to test, I used to go for these methods, but because I got tired and had to synthesize another product, it was abandoned.

knockout method is more useful when you have a fully functional formula that you totally like and now you do knockout for a specific purpose for example reducing the cost.
Example: you have a fully functional conditioner that one of the ingredients is keratin. You do knockout keratin and see how your formula works without it. If there was no difference then you don’t use keratin anymore and reduce your product cost.

If you don’t have a fully functional formula and you also don’t know what each ingredient is doing in the formula, i would advise as Perry said first make 1 ingredient with water and preservative and see, then add ane more and see and so on instead of adding 20 ingredients and making a bad product, then making 20 knockout formulas and still make bad products and at the end be confused that what was the purpose, benefit and result of all these experiments.

Now don’t say i know what each ingredient is doing in my formula 😉
Zahra

Member
March 22, 2022 at 2:58 pm

Abdullah said:

Zahra said:

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know.
I was ike this at first too.

I think it is better to continue mixing surfactants and some emollients

It may work better than before.

And I will go according to your opinions.

As Mr. Perry said you are out of the knockout method

And the combination of several substances

I used to test, I used to go for these methods, but because I got tired and had to synthesize another product, it was abandoned.

knockout method is more useful when you have a fully functional formula that you totally like and now you do knockout for a specific purpose for example reducing the cost.
Example: you have a fully functional conditioner that one of the ingredients is keratin. You do knockout keratin and see how your formula works without it. If there was no difference then you don’t use keratin anymore and reduce your product cost.

If you don’t have a fully functional formula and you also don’t know what each ingredient is doing in the formula, i would advise as Perry said first make 1 ingredient with water and preservative and see, then add ane more and see and so on instead of adding 20 ingredients and making a bad product, then making 20 knockout formulas and still make bad products and at the end be confused that what was the purpose, benefit and result of all these experiments.

Now don’t say i know what each ingredient is doing in my formula 😉

Grateful

I told you before that I work for a company, not for myself

So I have to find a formula that gives me the best result

I try to combine some ingredients and see their effect on the hair.

I was successful in making products

like the:

Mask after bath

hair conditioner

So I have to work hard, I will not be disappointed.،☺️
Zahra

Member
March 22, 2022 at 3:02 pm

Abdullah said:

Zahra said:

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know.
I was ike this at first too.

I think it is better to continue mixing surfactants and some emollients

It may work better than before.

And I will go according to your opinions.

As Mr. Perry said you are out of the knockout method

And the combination of several substances

I used to test, I used to go for these methods, but because I got tired and had to synthesize another product, it was abandoned.

knockout method is more useful when you have a fully functional formula that you totally like and now you do knockout for a specific purpose for example reducing the cost.
Example: you have a fully functional conditioner that one of the ingredients is keratin. You do knockout keratin and see how your formula works without it. If there was no difference then you don’t use keratin anymore and reduce your product cost.

If you don’t have a fully functional formula and you also don’t know what each ingredient is doing in the formula, i would advise as Perry said first make 1 ingredient with water and preservative and see, then add ane more and see and so on instead of adding 20 ingredients and making a bad product, then making 20 knockout formulas and still make bad products and at the end be confused that what was the purpose, benefit and result of all these experiments.

Now don’t say i know what each ingredient is doing in my formula 😉

I’m not saying what my formula’s ingredients do

Just their impact on what I read

And the experiments I did I realized.

The only question I asked was whether the amount of cationic surfactant in my system is low, which does not lead to straightening hair after ironing and washing?🤔
Zahra

Member
March 22, 2022 at 3:05 pm

I do 9 to 10 hours of experimental work.

On the other hand, I do research at home.

Thank you for your guidance

But I have to come to a few other conclusions myself.
Rafacasti

Member
March 24, 2022 at 2:35 pm
Hi, Zahra! What a topic! Let me try to help you. Go through this topics according to your problem:

If your problem is the performance of your product:
- Try to increase the amount of surfactants (in total)
- “Cocamidopropyl Betaine” (CAPB) and “Sodium Lauryl Ether Sulfate” (SLES) are good options and make a really good foam (this system will be more viscous, so don’t use too much “CAPB” because “SLES” will react with it)
- It’s not spreading properly? Issues with hardness? Increase a little bit the percentage of emollients (oils and waxes)
- Feeling on skin not so good? Silicones. But not too much, only one can work well. Maybe a volatile silicone like “Cyclopentasiloxane” works better (as it’s liquid and increases spreadability nicely, also it’s very easy to homogenize)… you can use some kind of powdered sensory modifier like “Talc” or “Tapioca Starch“
If your problem is with the foam in specific:
- Silicones could be the problem, once they’re foam inibitors, just like oils, alcohols, glycerides and some solvents as acetone
- You can also try to use (very) low concentrarions of “Xanthan Gum” (or other gum) to stabilize this foam (but the final aspect of your product will be not so beauty, so make sure you have no grums in it)
- If you choose to use “CAPB” and “SLES”, the foam will increase
If your problem is with conditioning the hair:
- Choose 1 or 2 of these to add: “Polyquaternium-10“, “Behentrimonium Chloride“, “Cetrimonium Chloride“
- I’m not sure about the aspect of your cleanser, but if you don’t mind about transparency at all, try “Behentrimonium Methosulfate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol“
If your problem is with keratin:
- As an active, use it at the max of 1% because if you overtake this level it will be a waste of money (because it would not have a better impact in the formulation)
- Keratin can break the viscosity of your formulation in some way, so continue stirring it for a while until everything is homogenized again
If your problem is the tecnical procedures to formulate:
- Realize what step is being hard to you and tell us exactly what it is. Is the heating? Mixing? Reach homogeniciety? Thick the system? pH stability? Percentages/concentrations? Raw materials? Etc…
And… here some tips I think could help you through the process:
- Less is better! As other said, your formulation is really big. You have a lot of ingredients, some of them from the same category, what is unecessary. This will impact negatively your job because the formulation will be more expensive with more ingredients (even if in low concentrations), so, try to reduce them to 1 of each category and see what happens. Then, try to improve the formula adding only the necessary, one ingredient per time.
- Have in mind that everyone has different types of hair, so your product will not be able to help everyone. This happens with all the cosmetics and it’s fine! I know you’re trying your best, so keep in that!
- The best product to you is not the better to your company, sometimes (and it happens a lot!). Try to cut expenses reducing the ingredients and you’ll be an angel that can save a lot of money and time for them! Also, there is more people working in the same product than you? Listen what they have to say and search for opinions of colleagues to have a better guidance if you want to.
- English is not the main language of many of us, and it’s ok! Mine is not pretty good too (sometimes I use a translator or a dictionary to make sure I’m doing it correctly)… Well, tell us where are you from (which country) and what language do you speak (your native language) so we may eventually find someone that speaks the same language that you. If you’re having issues with english or have doubts about how to explain your problems with this formulation, this could help a little bit more.
- I’m not sure about the cosmetics regulations of your country, but always make sure everything is alright with that (concentrations, ingredients, etc). If your main goal is to export your products, have in mind which country is your target and take a read on the regulation that is applied there (EU, FDA, ANVISA…)
Finally, let me know if this was helpful and good luck with your project! (:
ngarayeva001

Member
March 24, 2022 at 9:05 pm

Zahra said:

Hi

Ingredients

Water

Glyoxylic acid

Glycolic acid

Polyquaternium 6

Phenoxyethanol

Glyoxylic acid is your functional ingredient. Not keratin. Not dimethicone, not cationic polymers.
ngarayeva001

Member
March 24, 2022 at 9:13 pm

https://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/514367
ngarayeva001

Member
March 24, 2022 at 9:17 pm

Dupont says glycolic has some effect too but I would take it with a shovel of salt as they sell it
https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulas-products/hair-care/article/21836184/determining-the-effects-of-glycolic-acid-in-hair-care-products
Zahra

Member
March 25, 2022 at 12:04 pm

ngarayeva001 said:

Dupont says glycolic has some effect too but I would take it with a shovel of salt as they sell it
https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/formulas-products/hair-care/article/21836184/determining-the-effects-of-glycolic-acid-in-hair-care-products

Hello, thank you. Yes, I know that glyoxylic acid is used instead of formaldehyde, but I do not know the percentage of use in terms of molarity or its normality, and I did not see anywhere.

I know that the rest of the ingredients help not to damage the hair during ironing or the hair does not lose its softness during washing.
Zahra

Member
March 25, 2022 at 12:05 pm

Thank you for your good guidance
biofm

Member
February 22, 2023 at 9:29 pm

Keratin can be obtained from wasted biomaterials such as poultry feathers. Apart from the mainstream alkaline hydrolysis processes, the use of ionic liquids provides some operational advantages. Not sure if this is path you want to go but if you are willing and have the time and resources, this is something to consider. If you’re interested, I can suggest some ionic liquids that have been demonstrated to work.

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