Keratine - how do you produce it?

Zahra

Member

March 20, 2022 at 6:46 pm

Zahra said:

Hello, thank you all

I told the problem and the amount of materials. thank you for your help

Thanks

OldPerry

Member

March 21, 2022 at 2:40 am

Honestly you have a ridiculous number of ingredients. The key to creating a good formula is to keep it simple. Do not add more ingredients than you need.

why add 5 types of silicone when 1 would work fine?
why add two acids when 1 works fine?
why add two different types of protein when one works?

You have 24 ingredients. Cut it down to 10 ingredients.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 9:57 am

Zahra said:

Honestly you have a ridiculous number of ingredients. The key to creating a good formula is to keep it simple. Do not add more ingredients than you need.

why add 5 types of silicone when 1 would work fine?
why add two acids when 1 works fine?
why add two different types of protein when one works?

You have 24 ingredients. Cut it down to 10 ingredients.

Learn to formulate cosmetics

Yes, I used one type of acid, I used a mixture of two types to check the result

A good percentage of good ingredients are needed to achieve a good formula.

Of course, these materials work well

But I went up and down the percentages together and the result was the same and I did not get a better answer.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 10:12 am

Hello Mr. Perry, thank you

I do not have much money to register on this site.

I read cosmetic books.

I know the formulas.

I know what each substance has.

I have a problem with these two issues.

Of course, I know substances that neutralize static electricity, which are cationic surfactants, but I do not know if I need anionic and amphoteric surfactants to neutralize them.

I also know their allowable percentage.

I just have a problem this way.

I had trouble neutralizing static electricity in my hair.

I also have a problem with softness

I want my hair to be soft and fat-free so that my hair does not have too much fat.

Abdullah

Member

March 21, 2022 at 11:36 am

Measure your ingredients by weight percentage only. This way you know how much you should add if you change the batch size. Also when write your formula only as percentage.

Don’t say 2 drop or cc or gram. We cant know what percentage of your formula is this 2 drop or cc.

Tell us only the percentage so we can know how much you have added and can suggest you increase or decrease it.

For static charge, you can use cationic guar in shampoo or a cationic surfactant like stearamidopropyl dimethyl amine in conditioner.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 12:19 pm

Abdullah said:

Measure your ingredients by weight percentage only. This way you know how much you should add if you change the batch size. Also when write your formula only as percentage.

Don’t say 2 drop or cc or gram. We cant know what percentage of your formula is this 2 drop or cc.

Tell us only the percentage so we can know how much you have added and can suggest you increase or decrease it.

For static charge, you can use cationic guar in shampoo or a cationic surfactant like stearamidopropyl dimethyl amine in conditioner.

Hi thanks

Sorry I did not write the percentages

Yes, I understand you are right

In terms of percentage of acid or volume N, I wanted to fix it

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 12:30 pm

Of course from
Cetermonium chloride

And

I used polyquaternium

I have to use materials that do not change up to three stages after straightening the hair with an iron, and after washing with shampoo, free sulfate does not disappear and causes the hair to straighten.

I want my hair to be soft, but I should not use too much silicone and oil because the hair fat rises.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 12:38 pm

I do not know if the need for cationic surfactant is up to what percentage to assume 100 grams of sample

Because the allowable limits of cationic surfactants are different

I mean, what percentage is used?

Because with every percentage I made, it formed stickiness, like cetermonium cholride

Microformulation

Member

March 21, 2022 at 12:56 pm

With current Supply Chain issues and Raw Material price increases and shortages, I think you will have an uphill battle ever making this product affordably. For example, you used 4 silicones. Silicones are in short supply and the prices have jumped. I spent several hours last week looking for silicones and the client was buying Commercial quantities.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 1:27 pm

Hi thanks

Yes, I know, of course, the price of silicon has risen to some extent, as well as other materials

If I do not use these materials, they will not respond much

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 1:27 pm

Hello, thank you for all your experiences

Please introduce me to surfactants that have excellent conditioning and neutralize static electricity in the hair.

On the other hand, they are effective against washing with free sulfate shampoo and hair iron and do not disappear.

Of course, I know that large molecular surfactants are more effective.

I know a number of them and have worked with them.

But I did not get a good answer !?

OldPerry

Member

March 21, 2022 at 1:43 pm

@Zahra - Since you are new to formulating you seem to have a common fundamental misunderstanding of how to put together a formula.

If you begin the process from a starting formula that has been proven to work, then you simply need to adjust the levels of the ingredients in the formula or maybe add an ingredient to get some slightly improved effects.

But you seem to be starting from a completely, unproven formula.

If you are starting with just raw materials you need to begin with a simple formula. The simplest really. Make a formula with…

WATER
POLYQUATERNIUM 6
Preservative

Then test that formula and see whether it works or not.

If it doesn’t work & needs improvement is some area, simply add ONE more ingredient. Continue to do this until you get a formula that works as desired.

You should not start with 24 ingredients because you have no idea what each one is contributing to the effect of the final formula.

But if you continue to wish to use every ingredient, then you’ll need to do a knockout experiment to determine the effect of each ingredient.

Benyamin

Member
May 3, 2023 at 4:46 pm

Hello, don’t be tired. I want to make hair keratin, I need your help

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 2:12 pm

Perry said:

@Zahra - Since you are new to formulating you seem to have a common fundamental misunderstanding of how to put together a formula….

Hi thanks

Yes, I did some basic testing with some materials like your recommendation and added other materials to improve the work.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 2:17 pm

Thanks for suggesting the knockout method

I hope to achieve a good result

I am very happy to meet capable people in this forum.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 2:22 pm

Of course in several series of experiments

I deleted a few items

Or alternative.

To reach a conclusion

I work on the subject from 8 am to 5 pm

Of course, I also research the subject at home.

And I think well

Abdullah

Member

March 21, 2022 at 2:42 pm

What Perry said was if you start with only one ingredient+water+preservative, you know exactly what effect it has in your formula. Then add one another ingredient and you will know what effect this new ingredient has. And so on

In several experiments you have removed or changed some ingredients but you don’t know what effects did they have and what effect do the remaining ingredients have.
You are still as confused as you were before doing all these. So you learned nothing from those experiments.

I also advise you start from one ingredient with preservative, note the results and then move on.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 5:02 pm

Abdullah said:

What Perry said was if you start with only one ingredient+water+preservative, you know exactly what effect it has in your formula. Then add one another ingredient and you will know what effect this new ingredient has. And so on

In several experiments you have removed or changed some ingredients but you don’t know what effects did they have and what effect do the remaining ingredients have.
You are still as confused as you were before doing all these. So you learned nothing from those experiments.

I also advise you start from one ingredient with preservative, note the results and then move on.

Hi thanks

Yes thank you

I know the effect of the substances, but I thought more about the chemical reaction and their effect on hair straightening.

Some substances have keratin repairing properties, some substances have emollient properties and some have emulsifying properties.

Yes, as Mr. Perry said, I have tested it before.

And I reduced or removed some of the materials or replaced them.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 5:03 pm

Now I have to try again to get a better result.

Paprik

Member

March 21, 2022 at 6:13 pm

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

Benyamin

Member
April 30, 2023 at 5:47 pm

Hello, sorry, I wanted to make an acidic hair keratin formula, can you guide me?

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 8:52 pm

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

Hello

I do not intend to make fun of you

I asked a question that had caused problems in my work

Because a few months and after I did not get results, I worked on this issue and then

I worked on another topic

I went all this way with a few experiments, but because I did not get results, I got tired

Please do not judge anyone for no reason.

Zahra

Member

March 21, 2022 at 8:56 pm

Zahra said:

At the university where I studied, the professor did not teach much to the student, but it is the student who must try and learn science.

I do not need your misjudgment

Abdullah

Member

March 22, 2022 at 3:42 am

There is two types of knowing the effect effect of each ingredient.

1. You read on internet, on product descriptions or hear from someone that this ingredient has these functions and these benefits.

2. You actually experience it or someone who has experienced it tells you and then you know it.

Your knowledge it from first type and that is mostly not true.

For example: you used 2 drops of glycolic acid & 3 drops of glyoxylic acid to adjust pH. In your mind you think you are getting all those benefits of these two ingredients that you have seen on internet. Now make a batch and use only one acid and see if there is any difference. If no difference then you for real know that it had no benefits and was just adjusting pH.
The same for all other ingredients that you used.

Abdullah

Member

March 22, 2022 at 4:12 am

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know.
I was ike this at first too.

Zahra

Member

March 22, 2022 at 8:27 am

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

It is surprising how Zahra “knows” everything,. agrees on everything and has done everything you guys tell her before, but she (I assume it is her) still has things to say and having issues.

If you read all the books, have degree in chemistry, have done countless experiments, know everything about the ingredients, … what seems to be the issue? I’m re-reading everything and I still do not get your point.

I don’t mean to be rude, but this is second topic (I think) from her and it looks just ridiculous. Like she is making fun of you guys.

She thought the information about functions and benefits of an ingredient she finds on internet is all she needs to know.
I was ike this at first too.

I think it is better to continue mixing surfactants and some emollients

It may work better than before.

And I will go according to your opinions.

As Mr. Perry said you are out of the knockout method

And the combination of several substances

I used to test, I used to go for these methods, but because I got tired and had to synthesize another product, it was abandoned.