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How much Polyquaternium-7 in shampoo?
Many formulas mention using 0.5-1%
but is that 1% in an active basis, or 1% as-supplied?I just realized commercial PQ-7 is only about 9% active matter, so it makes a huge difference.
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13 Replies
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We always used it as supplied. You don’t need a lot of polymer to get an effect. Of course, I never found PQ-7 particularly conditioning in a shampoo formula.
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We also use it at up to 1% as supplied.
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PQ 7 1% as supplied. PQ 10 0.5%
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what’s happened if i raised pq7 to higher ratios like 2-4 % ?
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Perry said:We always used it as supplied. You don’t need a lot of polymer to get an effect. Of course, I never found PQ-7 particularly conditioning in a shampoo formula.
could you suggest shampoo formula without anything you thinks it’s useless ?
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@bahey - In my experience, Dimethicone has a measurable effect. Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride may work better that PQ7. Also PQ10 is a good option.
,"y":1192,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2758}”>But just because I don’t find PQ7 particularly impressive in the formula I was working with doesn’t mean you will have the same experience. It’s used by a lot of formulators. Unfortunately, I think a lot of formulators just put ingredients in because they trust what suppliers are saying.
,"y":1306,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2872}”>The most important thing is to experiment and take measurements. Test your formulations (on a blinded basis) and see if you can tell a difference with and without an ingredient. Don’t rely on supplier information or even the declarations of formulators on this forum to shape your final opinions.
,"y":1420,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2986}”>And when you run experiments, come back here and post your results so we can all advance the science.
,"y":1477,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":3043}”>Cosmetic science suffers from lots of motivated research, anecdotes and secrecy. There is surprisingly little controlled, unbiased published research. A forum like this can change it but only if people are willing to experiment, learn, and share. -
bahey said:what’s happened if i raised pq7 to higher ratios like 2-4 % ?
It will form a heavy build up . It will make unpleasant wet and dry conditions.
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Perry said:@bahey - In my experience, Dimethicone has a measurable effect. Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride may work better that PQ7. Also PQ10 is a good option.
,"y":1192,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2758}”>But just because I don’t find PQ7 particularly impressive in the formula I was working with doesn’t mean you will have the same experience. It’s used by a lot of formulators. Unfortunately, I think a lot of formulators just put ingredients in because they trust what suppliers are saying.
,"y":1306,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2872}”>The most important thing is to experiment and take measurements. Test your formulations (on a blinded basis) and see if you can tell a difference with and without an ingredient. Don’t rely on supplier information or even the declarations of formulators on this forum to shape your final opinions.
,"y":1420,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2986}”>And when you run experiments, come back here and post your results so we can all advance the science.
,"y":1477,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":3043}”>Cosmetic science suffers from lots of motivated research, anecdotes and secrecy. There is surprisingly little controlled, unbiased published research. A forum like this can change it but only if people are willing to experiment, learn, and share.✊ Respect
well said -
I agree with Perry that PQ 10 is better than PQ 7 (better combability for wet hair). Also, PQ 10 adds viscosity which is a great bonus if you are formulating with glucosides or say, sarcosinate.
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bahey said:what’s happened if i raised pq7 to higher ratios like 2-4 % ?
Nitesh Rajput advises to use 2-5% (as-supplied)
https://chemistscorner.com/what-is-polyquaternium/ This study used 1% active PQ-7
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-14392003000400013It looks like anionics hinder PQs deposition
Liquid Detergents
2nd edition
edited by Kuo-Yann LaiSo I wonder if most eveyone is getting mediocre results, just because they are using too little PQ-7?
1% of a 10% solution is just 0.1% active PQ7. -
@Gunther I made a batch with PQ7 2% , it was unpleasant. Here is a screen shot of Poucher’s text book of perfumes and cosmetics. He used only .25%PQ7 in his formula.
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