-
Help with particulates in gel cleanser
Hello,
I am formulating a basic gel cleanser and I’m having issues with particulates and separation that shows up after several days. Sediment is sinking to the bottom and there is a clear layer on top. I am using essential oils and using Capylyl Capryl Glucoside and Poly Suga Mulse as a solubilizer. We don’t want to use polysorbate as a solubilizer.
Interestingly, when I don’t adjust the pH with citric acid it stays clear and no particulates show up. Obviously I need to adjust the pH so I can’t leave it out. I will also be adding in another preservative but for now I just have sodium benzoate. The pH of the cleanser is 5.
Below is my formula:
32.06% - Water
11% - Glycerin
1.1% - Xanthan gum
0.1% - Sodium phytate
0.75% - Sodium Benzoate
44% - Plantapon SF ( Sodium Cocoamphoacetate (and) Glycerin (and) Lauryl Glucoside (and) Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate (and) Sodium Lauryl Glucose Carboxylate)
0.7% - Oryza Sativa (Rice) Extract & Water & Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract
0.7% - Water & Glycerin & Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract
0.8% - Water & Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract\
6% - Capylyl Capryl Glucoside
1.5% - Poly Suga Mulse
0.07% - Mandarin essential oil
0.29% - Essential oils
Citric acid to bring pH to 5
Can you see anything glaring? Below is a picture to see the separation and particulates.
-
10 Replies
-
Not sure if it is the cause of your problem but why are you using 11% glycerin? That is way too much. It is not necessary. Try it without the glycerin.
-
Hi @ozgirl
Thanks for your reply! I really was only using glycerin because I was finding I couldn’t get the face cleanser thick enough and when I used too much xanthan gum it got quite cloudy. I will for sure reduce to 1% and see how that goes. I have done many trials with varying levels of surfactants, glycerin, and gums and I still am dealing with the precipitates. But I’ll see how reducing glycerin significantly works. Thanks again!
-
-
Could you make a test removing Plantapon SF? The amphoacetate there is an amphoteric surfactant, which at low pH, can behave as a cationic, giving that you’re below its pKa (which I didn’t check, but the test is still worth to be done).
-
I agree with @ozgirl - 11% glycerin is way too much! You’re also getting more glycerin from your extracts and the Plantapon. You probably don’t need to add any glycerin but certainly reduce it to 1% or less.
You might try an acid different from citric acid. Try Lactic Acid maybe that might make a difference. If you don’t like Polysorbates, could you use something like Oleth-20? It’s not as well-known and it may help solubilize the essential oils.
-
Hi @Perry44
Thanks for your reply! Make sense what you said about glycerin. I was only using it to help thicken the gel a bit because anything above 1.25% xanthan gum made it too cloudy. I have found the citric acid helps thicken it as well and I have used lactic acid and still dealt with the precipitates, it was just a lot runnier.
I will look into Oleth-20. I think we would prefer not to use it but I haven’t done enough digging on it to make that decision yet.
I may have to find another way to thicken it but in the meantime I will try out your suggestions!
Thanks again!
-
-
The other one that could be causing it is Sodium Phytate which can precipitate out again once the pH drops to around 5 or lower.
Oops, I’m thinking of sodium anisate so ignore my comment.
-
This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Richard.
-
This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by
-
I would:
1. Try solubilize essential oils in CC glucoside and/or Plantspon SF, and remove Poly Suga Mulse (avoid mixing xanthan and crosspolymes), give this premix some time if needed
2. If step 1. doesn’t work (solubilisation) - maybe reduce essential oils? Or Plantapon.
3. Try a different order of ingredients. Do you add xanthan at the begining or end? I noticed that sometimes it matter when you add citric acid
4. Try different xanthan gum… Same INCI, different effect, especially with cloudiness
-
Hi Cordula,
Thank you so much for your advice here. I will try all your recommendations.
1. I would ideally like to keep the same xanthan gum (Ketrol SG-SFT) because we purchase it in high quantities for a shampoo we have but I will test some others to rule that out. I tried reducing glycerin to 1% as suggested by other members, however I used glycerin to predissolve the xanthan gum and now there isn’t enough to do that, and I found the xantham gum wouldn’t fully incorporate and very high shearing left a lot of bubbles which are still here even overnight. Any suggestions?
2. Is there a max amount of xanthan gum you would recommend? I need to thicken it more but the more xanthan gum there is, the more cloudy it gets.
3. Great suggestion on changing the order of ingredients - I pretty much have stayed with the same method so I may try and add citric acid earlier on to see what happens. Would you recommend adding xantham near the end if it’s predissolved in something?
Thanks!
-
Your surfactant blend has some salt content (4.5-5.8% from the data sheet) so you have anywhere from 2-2.5% salt in your formulation already. In my experience trying to use xanthan gum with formulations containing high salt, you will get separation into a salt-rich phase and a gum-rich phase. If you take out the xanthan gum do you still see separation?
I work for the company that manufactures keltrol. I would probably suggest not using the gum at all unfortunately, but if you want to try and make it work:
1. You don’t have to use dispersant like glycerin , you just have to have high enough shear and a method to remove any air incorporated. Use a Cowles (dispersion type) blade or a silverson rotor-stator (if you have ability to do something similar in production) and you can sift in the powder to try and minimize lumping. If you have significant air incorporated, you can heat the solution and mix slowly to encourage air bubbles to come out of the batch. You can also DM me if you need additional help on dispersing/hydrating the gum.
2. I’d highly recommend adding the xanthan into water first, prior to any other ingredients. Once you have electrolytes in the system it can be more difficult to hydrate the gum fully, meaning you might add more than you need / have additional issues with cloudiness.
I think your other best bets would be something like Lamesoft PO 65 or crothix liquid type. If those materials don’t fit your theme, then on the biopolymer side you could try adding something like iota-carrageenan (Genuvisco CG-131) which gels in the presence of salt and might help boost the viscosity, though you will have to determine if the appearance is acceptable to you. If you do use carrageenan the pH really can’t go much lower than 5 which is at odds with your preservative system.
-
Thanks so much for your detailed reply!
You’re right - the ketrol just didn’t work in this formulation. I had tried genuvisco as well without success unfortunately!
I had success with removing gums completely, increasing the surfactants and adding Lamesoft PO. Viscosity building happens at pH adjusting with citric acid and I’m really happy with the result. It’s a beautiful, clear gel, with a next texture that isn’t drying to the skin!
Thanks again!
-
-
-
Log in to reply.