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Formulating a cleansing oil for the very first time
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Hello everyone. I dont know if you ever deal with Seppic; the french chemicals manufacturer.They have many types of emulsifiers and i would like to share them wiht you to get your intake on that. So far i only have Polysorbate 80 but thought about checking other emulsifiers becayse the result i want to get is: having an emulsifier that doesnt irriate the skin so P80 checks that; i want the emulsifier to remove makeup easily especially on the eyes and lips and without fogging the vision and i want th emulsifier to make the oil transform into a milky texture.
So these are the other emulsifiers i found for yiur review please
https://www.seppic.com/en/simulsol-98
Btw what is the difference between an O/W or W/O emulsifier/I guess of my cleansing oil i will need a water in oil emulsifier.https://www.seppic.com/en/simulsol-68-pha
https://www.seppic.com/en/simulsol-58
https://www.seppic.com/en/beauty-care/seppic-proves-emogreentm-l19-benefits-very-dry-and-sensitive-skin
can this last ingredient be used in the cleansing oil please? -
Hello dear friends
Im adding more emulsifiers to the list and would like to know your opinion on them
https://www.seppic.com/en/sepiclear-g7
https://www.seppic.com/en/montanov-l
https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidifeel-easy
https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidanov-20x
https://www.seppic.com/en/wo-make-up-remover-emulsion-eu07173
https://www.seppic.com/en/montanov-202
https://www.seppic.com/en/fluidifeel-easy
Btw could you please tell me if Polysorbate 80 prevents the greasy finish on the skin once cleaning oil is rinsed off?
Thank you
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So is it possible to include electrolytes to my cleansing oil?
Just leave it in a toner.
But gel or foam cleansers are best for oily to acne prone skin they are not suitable for dry and senstive skinIt depends on the surfactant and/or blend formulated, also the active surfactant matter percentage.
So i learned recently when i started my skincare business that cleansing oil and balms have the advantage of suiting all skin type from oily to combo skinAgain it depends on the formulation. I was talking to one of my staff the last few days, she told me that she prefers the current cleansing balm over the old one she used before because it’s more moisturizing. The older one is used was slightly drying.
The end results can always vary and you can formulate accordingly.
shall i go to gel cleanser or cleansing balm ( which are popular) or should i keep the cleansing oil?If you decided that your role is to sell, then go with the more popular. If you want to sell by educating, it’s also up to you. Just that it would be a longer route and will take time. It’s up to you to decide what the factors you want to determine your goals and sales are.
Taking an action is sometimes better at making you learn a lesson than always procrastinating at the idea.
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If I may offer you this final bit of advice:
(1) Cleansing Oils are a proven product category. The issue is more will a cleansing oil be attractive in your target geographic market
(2) Follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid) in your product development
(3) Cleansing Oils are designed to cleanse. Most all ingredients you put in your formula will rinse off and won’t really have any effect other than the oils and surfactant. Everything else simply goes down the drain
(4) You will get the most valuable information from making a batch of product and have consumer panels test it and give you feedback
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Dear @Ghita37
MarkBroussard said:@Ghita37If I may offer you this final bit of advice:
(1) Cleansing Oils are a proven product category. The issue is more will a cleansing oil be attractive in your target geographic market
(2) Follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid) in your product development
(3) Cleansing Oils are designed to cleanse. Most all ingredients you put in your formula will rinse off and won’t really have any effect other than the oils and surfactant. Everything else simply goes down the drain
I agreed with Mark, maybe you are asking too much from cleansing oil. If there is one perfect cleansing oil fitted for all, I would love to have it too.
Take a quick look a Shu Uemura, how many formulas they have.MarkBroussard said:@Ghita37(4) You will get the most valuable information from making a batch of product and have consumer panels test it and give you feedback
Again I agreed with Mark, reading trend or searching from internet may give you a hint but there’s a big difference between internet surfing and market surveying. You can do 2 steps, 1 questionaire survey and start formulating accordingly, and then 2 test batch consumer panels, you can do 30, 50, 100.
We gave away tons of tester for information.My little humble advice - don’t decide based on what you have read on internet or what you thought. Correct data and information, why your target don’t like to use micellar, why some don’t like cleansing oil, why some like balm and you will see what you should sell, micellar or balm or oil or both or neither.
And you should be looking into makeup remover category rather than facial cleanser.
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Hello everyone/ Thank you for making my entrepreneurial journey clearer and better. I wish you all a Merry Christmas 🙂
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Hello @Jemolian, Im beyond grateful for your support here 🙂
You said a very important point at the end but i want to verify that i understood it. You said:
” If you decided that your role is to sell, then go with the more popular. If you want to sell by educating, it’s also up to you”.
So the more popular product in geenral or the more popular cleanser since im talking in this discussion about cleansing oil/So this means i choose the most popular cleanser and go do that; right?Then you mentioned that it depends on the surfactant.So if i use Polysorbate 80 would that be good for dry skins?
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@MarkBroussard Much obliged for your return
A part of me tells me: ok seems like cleansing oils are not popular so have another cleanser.
Jemolian asked whether i want to educate or sell and at my stage i want to sell of course; so i conclude that cleansing oil are not a good choice and should pick a more popular cleanser right? -
Much appreciated @Pattsi.
In regards to your points you said:2_You can do 2 steps, 1 questionaire survey and start formulating accordingly, and then 2 test batch consumer panels, you can do 30, 50, 100.
We gave away tons of tester for information.So this means that the products im creating will be a waste if the survey reveals that no one wanst them! Also how many people should i survey to have an idea of whether there is a need? So the idea like Mark said is to have some samples of my current produicts and test the market and see people’s reaction; do you think this is good also? and at the same time give the survey/So doing things in reverse : first test wiht ly products then giving survey so people tell me WHAT THEY WISH TO HAVE
My little humble advice - don’t decide based on what you have read on internet or what you thought. Correct data and information, why your target don’t like to use micellar, why some don’t like cleansing oil, why some like balm and you will see what you should sell, micellar or balm or oil or both or neither. What kind of cleansers would you like?
3-And you should be looking into makeup remover category rather than facial cleanser. So i researched now on google types of makeup remover and cleansing balms and oils are also meakeup remover.What kind of remover did you allude to?
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Cleansing Oils are often used as a component of a two-step cleansing process. Cleansing Oil is applied first to remove makeup followed by a second cleaning using a more traditional water-based cleanser.
Cleansing Oils may not be popular in your target geographic market simply because they are not widely available and your local population has been conditioned to use only water-based cleansers. In Asian markets, particularly Japan and Korea, Cleansing Oils are very popular.
You face different market and competitive challenges with each. With a Cleansing Oil you are introducing a new product format. With a traditional cleanser you face established competition and have to convince consumers to switch to your product/brand.
If you have the capital, you might consider introducing a Cleansing Systems comprised of two products.
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@Pattsi I watched one day a video on Youtube on what is a product market fit and they said that product market fit is found when people buy your prodiuct not when they fill in a survey or when they say they will buy through your survey;
They also said survey are used when you already have a target audience and and want to create a new product. Not when you’re starting out and have a product you want to test.
Searching, asking question to people whether they will buy or not will never show you the real picture. You’ll learn more by going out there (on- or offline), sharing your product with others and talking with them.
Who your target is, you’ll learn by doing.
Why they will (or will not) purchase, you’ll learn by doing.
What you need to do next, you’ll learn by doing. -
Thank you Mark so since i want to proceed the easy way; it means i should look for more common cleanser used here in Morocco and offer an improved version
So how to know what kind of cleanser is common in Morocco? Pay a visit to drusgtores and pharmacies and see what kind of cleanser sells the most correct? Is this the right approach please? -
@Mark i love your final idea when you said if i have the capital i can introduce a cleansing system comprised on 2 products. What do you mean by that?
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@MarkBroussard micellar water are another type of cleanser but i find them not good to remove makeup;Why? well they are water based so you have ti apply pressure on your skin with the cotton pad to remove the makeup versus with an oil based cleanser the product just glides in your skin removing effortlessly/Dont you think so?
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Correct … survey what products are on the shelves of supermarkets, pharmacies and beauty retailers in your local market and ask the store management what are the top selling cleansing products to benchmark your competition. Note the ingredients they use and the price points. Do this for both facial cleansers and makeup removers. Determine if you think you can develop a competitive product at similar price points or if you want to try to develop a superior, premium product at a more “luxury” price point. See if there are any Cleansing Oils on the shelves.
What I mean is you can offer a Cleansing Oil + Water-Based Cleanser as a combo-packaged product comprising a cleansing system targeted at women.
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I did a bit of research after my last message into what are the best selling cleansers here in Morocco.So i checked online 4 different pharmacies and the type that sell the moist are: gel cleansers/Foaming gel/ cleansing cream/Foaming jelly/cleansing milk/ then i saw cleansing oils. but the most popular are the ones i mentioned first. Also for cleansing oil someone said: it removes makeup easily like all other oils( so how can i set myself apart here?) Is it possible to have a cleansing oil that is different from other oils, or maybe a hybrid product between an oil and a gel? Im just thinking out loud with you all 🙂
But what I notice is that a jelly or gel texture or micellar water dont remove eye and lip makeup or stubborn sunscreen like an oil would do and the idea behind the oil is that u use a product for everyhting: remove makeup; susncreen; mascara; lip gloss/ So i want to implement your advice and do maybe a cleansing gel but how can i formulate it in such a way that it will remove lip makeup and mascara and sunscreen and also the thing behind the gel is that imagine you are so tired and just came back from a trip or party or an event and just want to crash in the bed; is the gel or foaming jelly or micelar watee the best option for a lazy person.I want my product to simplify the life of people and have them say: Oh Ghita thank you for coming up with this.
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@MarkBroussard i dont know how to thank you Mark really!!!!May God bless you and may God bless you all here. Thanks to all your advices i made lots of progress. I found the support in all of you, thank you so much 🙂
Im sending you all warm hugs from Morocco -
So the more popular product in geenral or the more popular cleanser since im talking in this discussion about cleansing oil/So this means i choose the most popular cleanser and go do that; right?
As mentioned, this is up to you. The popular product refers to the one that sells the best for your demographic whatever that is.
Then you mentioned that it depends on the surfactant.So if i use Polysorbate 80 would that be good for dry skins?No point asking me since it depends on your brand concept and product performance results you are trying to achieve.
They also said survey are used when you already have a target audience and and want to create a new product. Not when you’re starting out and have a product you want to test.Surveying can do both things as it depends on what you are trying to find out. I believe my previous comments would have mentioned.
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In regards to the top selling cleansers in Morocco;like i said gel cleansers; foaming jelly; micellar water; cream cleanser and milk cleanser. gel cleansers sell a lot but these are for oily to acne prone skin.So from what i saw in 5 online pharmacies GEL CLEANSERS, FOAMING GELS , JELLY CLEANSERS are the most selling cleansers; but when i read online i saw that FOAMS btw are for oily skins, gel same oily and acne prone; jelly same. So this make me understand tht either all Moroccan girls ahve oily skin and im the only one whp has dry skin or this makes me think that the milk and cleansing cream are not good enough because these i dont find them much. I want to adress the needs of dry skins and want to give them something thqt cleanser without having the tightening sensqtion when they cleanse. Can a gel be made for dry skins?
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Id like to share with you a website of a pharmacie here in Morocco; near to my place.
So filtered by the top selling cleansers and here is what i found:https://paralandmahaj.com/categorie-produit/visage/demaquillants-et-nettoyants/?orderby=popularity
So results are:
Foam
gel
cleansing oil
micellar water
micellar water
gel
foam
micelallr wate
gel
claensing foam
gel
MICELLAR WATER
cleansing cream
gel
micellar water
micellar
micelalr
gel
gel
CLEANSING CREAM
cleansing balm
foam
foam
foam
cleansing balm
cleasing cream
micellar water
gelAnother pharmacy shows the following results online for the top selling cleansers:
https://epara.ma/category/visage/nettoyants-et-demaquillantsgel( i mean by that cleansing gel)
gel
gel
gel
foaming gel
gel
cleasing milk
cleasing milk
milk 3 in 1 face eyes lips
milk
milk
micellar
milk
micellar
milk
milk
micellar
micellar
toner ( dont know why these are cleansers also)
micellar
micellar
micellar
mlicemllar
micellar
micellar
micellar
micellar
micellar
ùicellar
micellar
micellar
micemlar
micellar
micellar
micemlar
gel
mciellar
foam
cleasning oil and this is what people say:
oh its a cleansing oil not an oil to remove makeup;it foams a little bit
someone else said: i love it; in fez seconds it removes the mqkeup
someone else said: i used DHC cleansing oil before and i discovered this japanse ritual. for those zith senstive skin its by far the best option for a gentle cleansing;texture is good not too thick not too runny; i recommend cleansing oil for all those looking for a gentle to clenase their face.
Someone else said: i love it but because of the fragrance it left my skin red
someone else said:i wanted to try a new type of cleanser and found this cleansing oil and i love itThe textyre become milky when mixed wiht water,
someone else said: the best for senstive skin types. a little but too liquidy for my liking but maybe because im not used to cleansing oils.
someone else said: i have dehydrated and sensitbe skin and it doesnt leave a tightening sensation on my skin
someone else said: i bought this prodcyt cus my daughter raves about korean products/its so easy to use and efficient.
someone else said: the first time i use this type of cleanser. makeup is removed easily; i was worried the oil would leave a film on my skin but it didnt.
someone else said: excellent makeup remover; waterpoof makeup is not a problem for this type of cleanser; i highly recommend it.No more cotton pads and milk. milk you must use thel wiht cotton and cotton can irritate the skin versus applying wiht fingers is better and softer.so i think i can try with my cleansing oil, have a batch of 50 and go sell them on a booth that i bought. and maybe have also a gel next to the oil and sell both types, just two see how the market react. I said gel cus from what i shared wiht you gels sell a lot but to me they cater to two diff types of skins so they are not comparable but i just see that dry skins in morocco only have two types of cleanser; cream and milk. so lets test the oil as well/ just like the person from the review said its the first time maybe others will want to test.
I wanted to share wiht you the full picture
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Hello everyone;
This milk cleanser is not bad from Dermatologica.
https://www.amazon.com/DERMALOGICA-Dermalogica-Intensive-Moisture-Cleanser/dp/B07Q4FX18Y/ref=sr_1_5?crid=LHUA02O7D9MJ&keywords=best%2Bcleanser%2Bfor%2Bdry%2Bskin&qid=1671918830&sprefix=best%2Bcleanser%2Caps%2C344&sr=8-5&th=1This Laroche Posay cleanser for senstive and dry skin is also on my radar because that one is also highly sold in Morocco
https://www.amazon.com/Roche-Posay-Toleriane-Hydrating-Gentle-Cleanser/dp/B01N7T7JKJ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=LHUA02O7D9MJ&keywords=best%2Bcleanser%2Bfor%2Bdry%2Bskin&qid=1671918830&sprefix=best%2Bcleanser%2Caps%2C344&sr=8-6&th=1This is also sold in Morocco
https://www.cetaphil.com/us/cleansers/gentle-skin-cleanser/302990110227.html#productIngredients
So if i want to make somethign for dry and and senstive skin i thought about these 3 products here
Thank you for your constant support and guidance.
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when i read online i saw that FOAMS btw are for oily skins, gel same oily and acne prone; jelly same. So this make me understand tht either all Moroccan girls ahve oily skin and im the only one whp has dry skin or this makes me think that the milk and cleansing cream are not good enough because these i dont find them much. I want to adress the needs of dry skins and want to give them something thqt cleanser without having the tightening sensqtion when they cleanse. Can a gel be made for dry skins?
It depends on your formulation. A cleanser can be changed to different types by adding different ingredients. Foam can be referred to soap or saponified cleansers or that they lather up very well to a fine foam, gel cleansers can also do the same or some doesn’t lather at all.
My skin is on the dry side but I have also made a foam cleanser in a foam pump bottle, and have also made a cleansing milk / lotion. It’s how you formulate your cleanser, how you intend for it to perform, and who you intend the potential users to be. I can add some gum or thickener to my foam cleanser formulation and make it into a gel and it still works the same.
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Dear Jemolian.Thank you for your reply.
Ok so my intention is follow Mark Broussard advice which is to follow the top selling products and do that so ill have 30 samples of for instance a gentle milk cleanser like the Cerave or Toleriane by Laroche Posay and will also do 30 cleansing oils and see which ones will sell the most on my booth. They are both for the same skin type: dry and senstitive.
Quick question: when the product lathers too much; this means there is a high concentration of surfactant and thus not suitable for dry skins right? So fr dry and senstive skin does it mean the surfactant dosage should be kept minimal?
Also im doing as Mark said which is to check the competition in terms of cleansers and see what ingredients they use. So for example im checking La Roche Posay Tolerian cleanser and Cetaphil gentle cleanser( because these sell a lot in Morocco) and please correct me if im wrong based on my understanding these two cleansers are water-based correct? Also from my understanding of the INCI list i see that they are fillers-filled instead of having actives that deliver results.
INCI for Toleriane by LaRoche Posay
AQUA / WATER • ETHYLHEXYL PALMITATE • GLYCERIN • DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL • CARBOMER • SODIUM HYDROXIDE • CAPRYL GLYCOL / CAPRYLYL GLYCOL • ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN
There are no active ingredients above right? Though people rave about it; so this means the great result is only delivered by the fillers right? So does this give me a margin to offer an imrpoved version and add some actives like ceramides, hyaluronic acid, and argan oil and put rose water instead of plain water ? can i add oil?INCI Laroche Posay Toleriane Hydrating gentle facial cleanser
WATER • GLYCERIN • PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRAETHYLHEXANOATE • PROPANEDIOL • AMMONIUM POLYACRYLOYLDIMETHYL TAURATE • POLYSORBATE 60 • CERAMIDE NP • NIACINAMIDE • SODIUM CHLORIDE • COCO-BETAINE • DISODIUM EDTA CAPRYLYL GLYCOL • PANTHENOL • TOCOPHEROL (CODE FIL: D242855/1)INCI for Cetaphil gentle cleanser
Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Niacinamide, Pantolactone, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid
Here again i dont see any active ingredient but only filler ingredients. tHE ONLY ACTIVE is niacinamide.sO as per @Ma@MarkBroussard suggestion either i offer the same product at a lower price point or develop a superior premium product at luxury price point:so does that mean adding more luxrious ingredeints?
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when the product lathers too much; this means there is a high concentration of surfactant and thus not suitable for dry skins right? So fr dry and senstive skin does it mean the surfactant dosage should be kept minimal?
Some surfactants foam more, some less. Less surfactants are better but it can depend on the mildness of the surfactants. People just want effective cleansing while having sufficient mildness. You can test out what that is with different combination / product types.
Toleriane by LaRoche Posay
AQUA / WATER • ETHYLHEXYL PALMITATE • GLYCERIN • DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL • CARBOMER • SODIUM HYDROXIDE • CAPRYL GLYCOL / CAPRYLYL GLYCOL • ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN
There are no active ingredients above right? Though people rave about it; so this means the great result is only delivered by the fillers right? So does this give me a margin to offer an imrpoved version and add some actives like ceramides, hyaluronic acid, and argan oil and put rose water instead of plain water ? can i add oil?This is basically a lotion, there’s no surfactants. People can still cleanse with this. Avene also has a similar cleanser with this concept if I recall correctly.
Putting actives only increases your cost. As previously mentioned, for cleansing products you can reduce your actives since they are washed off.Cetaphil gentle cleanser
Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Panthenol, Niacinamide, Pantolactone, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid
Here again i dont see any active ingredient but only filler ingredients. tHE ONLY ACTIVE is niacinamide.There is panthenol.
either i offer the same product at a lower price point or develop a superior premium product at luxury price point:so does that mean adding more luxrious ingredeints?This is up to you. The price point of those products you referred shouldn’t be that expensive, so fighting a price war by being more price competitive is not your best choice if you are starting out. I’ll recommend standing out and differentiating your product in another way. You have to think about it yourself. As mentioned the surveying helps if you know what people have issues with when using similar products.
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