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Formulating
When I stir the cream sample. High viscosity at stirring. After a day, it reduces viscosity. Let me ask why is that. Thanks
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17 Replies
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@ttk102360 not enough information and too many reasons to go into here.
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I would recommend a better headline/title as well
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Sorry, I forgot to copy the formula. I want to make a formula with a high extract content and a high moisturizing ingredients.
Water 56.5%
Chamomilla Recutita Flower Extract, Acer saccharum Extract, Portulaca Oleracea Extract and Butylene glycol 10%
Propanediol 8%
HA( 1% solution) 5%
Glycerin 5%
Water & Helichrysum italicum extract & Phenoxyethanol 1%Cetyl PEG/PPG-10/1 Dimethicone 2.5%
Silica 2%
Dicaprylyl Carbonate 2%
Dimethyl Isosorbide 2%
Parlem 4 5%
Phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin 0.9% -
ttk102360 said:When I stir the cream sample. High viscosity at stirring. After a day, it reduces viscosity. Let me ask why is that. Thanksmeaning your formula is not stable.
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Pattsi said:ttk102360 said:When I stir the cream sample. High viscosity at stirring. After a day, it reduces viscosity. Let me ask why is that. Thanks
meaning your formula is not stable.
I mean, when I finished stirring the sample, the viscosity of the sample was high. After 1 day, its viscosity decreased (There is no delamination). I don’t know why
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Aha! @ttk102360 …that’s much better. Heres the problem: you are formulating a high internal phase (H.I.P.) w/o emulsion and you a) do not have a mineral salt to stabilize so ADD NaCl at 1.00% to the water phase; and b) adding a high MW polymer to the disperse phase is a recipe for failure, so DEL the hyaluronate; and c) you have way too much polyol for a stable w/o emulsion like this so REDUCE that glycerin & propylene glycol way down. What you experienced is the phenomenon where inverse-phase emulsions exhibit a viscosity response to sheer (homogenizer, right?) but that viscosity will diminish due to the entropic instability of your formula due to chemistry.
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Oh Abil EM 90… as chemicalmatt said, you need salt. You also need a second emulsifier and countless trials and errors. It’s not an easy emulsifier. It also prefers silicones in the oil phase. Replace Propanediol with sodium lactate. It works well in w/o. Not 1.5-2% not 8.
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Also, how exactly do you process it? W/o are very sensitive to process
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chemicalmatt said:Aha! @ttk102360 …that’s much better. Heres the problem: you are formulating a high internal phase (H.I.P.) w/o emulsion and you a) do not have a mineral salt to stabilize so ADD NaCl at 1.00% to the water phase; and b) adding a high MW polymer to the disperse phase is a recipe for failure, so DEL the hyaluronate; and c) you have way too much polyol for a stable w/o emulsion like this so REDUCE that glycerin & propylene glycol way down. What you experienced is the phenomenon where inverse-phase emulsions exhibit a viscosity response to sheer (homogenizer, right?) but that viscosity will diminish due to the entropic instability of your formula due to chemistry.
Thank you. Part a and b, I will change according to your opinion. Part c, I know polyol too much, but I try to do so, this formula is specifically for people who use a lot of corticosteroids. I tested it with many volunteers. Because, I want to change emulsifier, problematic formulation. Before, I used Seppic’s easynox. After I remake the sample, I’ll give you the results
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ngarayeva001 said:Oh Abil EM 90… as chemicalmatt said, you need salt. You also need a second emulsifier and countless trials and errors. It’s not an easy emulsifier. It also prefers silicones in the oil phase. Replace Propanediol with sodium lactate. It works well in w/o. Not 1.5-2% not 8.
Thank you. I will change according to your opinion. I will give you the results later.
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Is there a reason why it should be w/o? Those emulsions work against rules of thermodynamics (well all emulsions are but w/o more than others) and hard to make stable even without loads of additives.
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ttk102360 said:
Thank you. Part a and b, I will change according to your opinion. Part c, I know polyol too much, but I try to do so, this formula is specifically for people who use a lot of corticosteroids. I tested it with many volunteers. Because, I want to change emulsifier, problematic formulation. Before, I used Seppic’s easynox. After I remake the sample, I’ll give you the results
Are you sure HIP cream will not worsen their conditions?
I don’t think you can get a long-termed stability with stirring.
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chemicalmatt said:Aha! @ttk102360 …that’s much better. Heres the problem: you are formulating a high internal phase (H.I.P.) w/o emulsion and you a) do not have a mineral salt to stabilize so ADD NaCl at 1.00% to the water phase; and b) adding a high MW polymer to the disperse phase is a recipe for failure, so DEL the hyaluronate; and c) you have way too much polyol for a stable w/o emulsion like this so REDUCE that glycerin & propylene glycol way down. What you experienced is the phenomenon where inverse-phase emulsions exhibit a viscosity response to sheer (homogenizer, right?) but that viscosity will diminish due to the entropic instability of your formula due to chemistry.
@chemicalmatt, I did it, the formula has stabilized a lot. I want to know why add NaCl and del HA, it helps to stabilize the formula in this case. Thanks, for your help. Is NaCl stable for all emulsified formulations?
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sodium chloride increases the surface tension of the water phase, and reduces its tendency to aggregate, which stabilises W/O emulsions; it’s not necessary in O/W, and if anything is more likely to destabilise itmagnesium salts do the job better still, as they’ve got a +2 charge on them rather than +1 -
…echoing what Bill Toge said. ’nuff said.
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@Bill_Toge I have a zinc oxide w/o emulsion with low HLB emulsifiers, but adding small percentage of Polysorbate 60 has improved the texture!
Is it ok to have Polysorbate 60 in w/o formulation??
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