Anyone know the polyglyceryl 3 stearate content of Koster's Kostol Natural E emulsifier?

GraillotionGraillotion Member
edited June 8 in Cosmetic Industry
You're gonna love this one.  I could not find small pack of polyglyceryl 3 stearate, to save my life (in the US).  So, I ended up buying Koster Keunen's Kostol Natural E emulsifier, to acquire polyglyceryl 3.  INCI: Behenyl Alcohol, Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate.

So....I use behenyl in everything anyway, so I figured I will just reduce my added behenyl by the amount that comes along with the ingredient I was actually after, the polyglyceryl 3 stearate.

So I need to know the ratios...so I can include and adjust the formula as desired. 

I could only find this on Making Cosmetics site.

Anyone have deeper insight?

Behenyl Alcohol  30-70%
Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate 20-60% 

It could be 50/50...but is that probable?  It it was me...and it was 50/50...I would have reversed the inci order....with the higher value one first.


Aloha.  (My Newest creation)


Comments

  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    What do you like most about pg3 stearate? 

    In my opinion amount of pg3 stearate is ≤40%
  • ggpetrovggpetrov Member
    edited June 8
    https://www.dragonspice.de/naturkosmetikRohstoffe/Alle-Rohstoffe-A-Z/Softfeel-PS.html

    I've recently bought it from Dragonspice, and I loved it. It gives a very dry and powdery feeling coupled with GMS SE or GMS citrate, and also I noticed a kind of conditioning effect on the skin, something like BTMS.

    I wouldn't coupled it with Behenyl, because it really tends to give very dry and fast absorbing emulsions. I'd use Cetearyl instead
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited June 8
    @ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?
  • ggpetrovggpetrov Member
    edited June 8
    Abdullah said:
    @ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?
    1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    @ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?
    1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 
    Thanks 
    For me BTMS dry and powdery feel was noticable from 0.5-1% BTMS. What percentage of pg3 stearate will have that feeling of 0.5-1% BTMS if it can have it al all?
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Weird. Some resources list the INCI the other way round. Anyway, it can only be 40-70% and 30-60%, respectively, unless there's 10% nondeclared stuff inside too (such as moisture or magic).
    Based on the saponification value of Kostol Natural E Wax N° 414, I calculate 60-80% PG-3 stearate. Based on theory of lamellar networks and the proportion Montanovs contain, PG-3 stearate content would be in the 20-30% range (that would also be my guess).
    And now you know as much as before.
  • justaerinjustaerin Member
    graillotion, I know nothing about the emulsifier, but that is a gorgeous bloom. Thank you for sharing your flowers with us.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Graillotion

    You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI.  I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.

    Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown ... it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • ggpetrovggpetrov Member
    Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    @ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?
    1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 
    Thanks 
    For me BTMS dry and powdery feel was noticable from 0.5-1% BTMS. What percentage of pg3 stearate will have that feeling of 0.5-1% BTMS if it can have it al all?

    I've just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS + 0.5% GMS Citrate + 1% Cetearyl alcohol and 8% fat phase. Also I have used 0.2% Sodium Carbomer. Keep in mind that Softfeel tends to thicken the emulsion, so with this incredients I've got a thick lotion. The sensorial properties of the emulsion are wondefull. You have enough playtime, but when you finish, the emulsion dissapears literally. The feeling is that you have nothing on your skin, and even more you almost can't leave a fingerprints on the objects. Meanwhile the skin is fresh and soft.

  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    @ggpetrov What percentage of emulsifiers did you use?
    1 Usually I use about 3%, but I always pair the emulsifiers. 
    Thanks 
    For me BTMS dry and powdery feel was noticable from 0.5-1% BTMS. What percentage of pg3 stearate will have that feeling of 0.5-1% BTMS if it can have it al all?

    I've just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS + 0.5% GMS Citrate + 1% Cetearyl alcohol and 8% fat phase. Also I have used 0.2% Sodium Carbomer. Keep in mind that Softfeel tends to thicken the emulsion, so with this incredients I've got a thick lotion. The sensorial properties of the emulsion are wondefull. You have enough playtime, but when you finish, the emulsion dissapears literally. The feeling is that you have nothing on your skin, and even more you almost can't leave a fingerprints on the objects. Meanwhile the skin is fresh and soft.

    Thanks 
    That is the type of feeling i like too.
  • ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:


    I've just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS +

    What is the INCI on Softfeel PS.  I could not find that on ULP.

  • I found a Cetiol Softfeel (without the PS)...with INCI of: 

    C12-18 Alkanoyl Glycerin/Sebacic Acid Copolymer


    Is this the one?

  • ggpetrovggpetrov Member
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:


    I've just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS +

    What is the INCI on Softfeel PS.  I could not find that on ULP.



    According to this site, there are two emulsifiers with this name. The first one is made from Kinetik Technologies, and the second one from Evonik. I guess that the one from the Dragonspice store is the Evonik's one, because they sell a lot of Evonik's products.



  • ggpetrov said:
    ggpetrov said:
    Abdullah said:
    ggpetrov said:


    I've just looked at my worksheet. 2% Softfeel PS +

    What is the INCI on Softfeel PS.  I could not find that on ULP.



    According to this site, there are two emulsifiers with this name. The first one is made from Kinetik Technologies, and the second one from Evonik. I guess that the one from the Dragonspice store is the Evonik's one, because they sell a lot of Evonik's products.



    Got it!  Just straight up PG-3 stearate.

    BTW....the one I linked....was pretty interesting. :)  (But not an emulsifier.)
  • @Graillotion

    You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI.  I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.

    Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown ... it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.
    I was aware that many times repackers are not allowed to use the real name of the product, but changing the INCI order?  If above 1%...that has an 'illegal' vibe?  :D 
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Graillotion

    You have to be careful with repackers such as Making Cosmetics as they often change the order of the ingrdients in listing the INCI.  I am assuming this may be a requirement of the manufacturer, but who knows.

    Your best bet is to contact Koster Keunen directly and ask for a compositional breakdown ... it may not be any more illuminating than what you got from MC, but at least it will be directly from the source.
    I was aware that many times repackers are not allowed to use the real name of the product, but changing the INCI order?  If above 1%...that has an 'illegal' vibe?  :D 
    Yes, it is strange ... the INCI from the manufacturer is the registered INCI.  A repacker changing the INCI name order, which some of them do, seems not quite right. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
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