Does Palmitoleic Acid / Omega 7 exist as a standalone cosmetic ingredient?

helenhelenhelenhelen Member
edited July 2021 in General
Does Palmitoleic Acid / Omega 7 exist as a standalone ingredient to use in cosmetic formulations? I can't seem to find anything.

This product has it in its ingredients list:
https://raawbytrice.com/products/laminaria-eye-creme

Comments

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited July 2021
    Unlikely. Too costly in refined/purified form. Eat fatty coldwater fish or use sea buckthorn pulp oil ;) .
  • Pharma said:
    Unlikely. Too costly in refined/purified form. Eat fatty coldwater fish or use sea buckthorn pulp oil ;) .
    Oh shame, I thought that might be the case. I like the effect of sea buckthorn oil on the skin, but the colour is just too intense!
  • RedCoastRedCoast Member
    edited July 2021
    @helenhelen Have you tried using sea buckthorn oil at 5% concentration? It doesn't appear to stain skin for most people... but perhaps only with people who are paper-white.
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 2021
    Macadamia nut oil...is not too far off the pace....and a favorite of at least a couple of us....in this thread. :)  

  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    HOLY SH*ç"! @Graillotion I have completely zapped that mac nut oil contains that high level of palmitoleic acid! @helenhelen That oil is awsom, not just the nuts ;) .
    Soory, I have to go (to my *shame on me* corner).
  • Pharma said:
    HOLY SH*ç"! @Graillotion I have completely zapped that mac nut oil contains that high level of palmitoleic acid! @helenhelen That oil is awsom, not just the nuts ;) .
    Soory, I have to go (to my *shame on me* corner).
    Sometimes even the grasshopper surprises the master! :):smile:

  • @Pharma @Graillotion Thanks both. I have been avoiding nut products, which is why I haven't already used macadamia nut oil despite its palmitoleic acid content... I am always tempted but then I am worried I will love it and not be able to add it in the final product. Apparently Phytosteryl Macadamiate (which I have tried) has 20% palmitoleic acid as well... but I've never got it to not feel heavy in a cream.

    I am using avocado oil at the moment for the palmitoleic acid.. and it's fine but sea buckthorn oil has a much nicer, more neutral afterfeel instead of the slightly oilier afterfeel of avocado oil.

    @RedCoast I haven't actually tried the sea buckthorn oil in an emulsion yet - I can tell even 1% will make it yellow! I should try it though...
  • @Pharma @Graillotion Thanks both. I have been avoiding nut products, which is why I haven't already used macadamia nut oil despite its palmitoleic acid content... I am always tempted but then I am worried I will love it and not be able to add it in the final product. Apparently Phytosteryl Macadamiate (which I have tried) has 20% palmitoleic acid as well... but I've never got it to not feel heavy in a cream.

    I am using avocado oil at the moment for the palmitoleic acid.. and it's fine but sea buckthorn oil has a much nicer, more neutral afterfeel instead of the slightly oilier afterfeel of avocado oil.

    @RedCoast I haven't actually tried the sea buckthorn oil in an emulsion yet - I can tell even 1% will make it yellow! I should try it though...
    Would adding Lauryl Laurate help counteract that yellow color? It tends to make things ultra white...🤷‍♀️
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Macadamia nuts are stone fruits aka drupes like pistachios, cashews, pecans, coconuts, almonds, apricots, mangos, raspberries, and figs. Only their names sometimes contains the word 'nut'. Nut is usually a culinary term instead of a botanical one and therefore utterly stupid, to be honest. Many things we colloquially call nuts aren't actually nuts whilst other seeds are true nuts though nobody calls them so.
    Chestnuts and pine nuts as examples are nuts though in many Romance languages aren't called nut but for example châtaigne or Pinienkerne, respectively, and in the corresponding countries, we wouldn't think of these seeds as nuts.
    Hazelnut is a real nut (and since shortly, so are walnuts), Brazil nut isn't, peanuts are legumes and their seeds may be regarde as nuts depending on definition, whilst hemp nuts, sunflower seeds, and strawberry seeds are achenes which some put into the same category as nuts.
    Can you still follow me or did I drive you nuts?
    :D
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    edited July 2021
    BTW I'm honestly not entirely sure but I think Shea nuts are also a true nuts as well as different seeds from which other cosmetic butters are extracted...
    And @helenhelen once you used mac nut oil (phytosteryl macadamiate is not the same!) you'll stick with it for life :wink: . I've tried avocado oil, it's miles away from mac nut oil, not close to the same league!
    The only oil I like more than macadamia oil is pistachio oil, but for eating, not in cosmetics :smile: .
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 2021
    @Pharma @Graillotion Thanks both. I have been avoiding nut products, which is why I haven't already used macadamia nut oil despite its palmitoleic acid content... I am always tempted but then I am worried I will love it and not be able to add it in the final product. Apparently Phytosteryl Macadamiate (which I have tried) has 20% palmitoleic acid as well... but I've never got it to not feel heavy in a cream.

    I am using avocado oil at the moment for the palmitoleic acid.. and it's fine but sea buckthorn oil has a much nicer, more neutral afterfeel instead of the slightly oilier afterfeel of avocado oil.

    @RedCoast I haven't actually tried the sea buckthorn oil in an emulsion yet - I can tell even 1% will make it yellow! I should try it though...
    I am using phytosterols in most products...and have found that if I want to keep them in the range of 'butterfly kiss's'...I have to keep that level at .5% or so.

    Have you experienced a reaction to mac nut oil?  Most nut allergy suffers....will not (not all).  If you can get your hands of mac nut oil that originated from FloraTech....that stuff is clean...and magical.

    Now I am going to jump into a (I am) clueless line of thought.... There is also a product called ethyl macadamiate (Floratech makes this as well...and probably others)... and what I don't know is what the level of palmtoleic acid is (if any) that transfers through from the transformation.  I think @Pharma might be able to shed some light on this....  But a wonderful product that won't limit what you can make.  I have not used it (other than in formulating)...as I could not find a reliable small pack source for it. :( 

    "Ethyl macadamiate is a mixture of the ethyl esters of the free fatty acids produced by the complete saponification of macadamia oil. The primary constituents of ethyl macadamiate are ethyl oleate and ethyl palmitoleate."

    I'll see if I can find any details on that....later.
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    Ethyl macadamiate should have the same proportions of fatty acids as the native oil.
    However, ethyl macadamiate is neither macadamia nut oil nor oleic and palmitoleic acid ;) .
    Also couldn't find it a repackers, would love to try it! All I need is a vacuum pump and a tap water adaper so I can finally make my own (I have the rotary evaporator, a reflux system, and all the required chemicals...).
    Can I buy a useful but cheap vacuum pump (China style LoL) on Amazon?
  • Pharma said:
    Ethyl macadamiate should have the same proportions of fatty acids as the native oil.
    However, ethyl macadamiate is neither macadamia nut oil nor oleic and palmitoleic acid ;) .
    Also couldn't find it a repackers, would love to try it! All I need is a vacuum pump and a tap water adaper so I can finally make my own (I have the rotary evaporator, a reflux system, and all the required chemicals...).
    Can I buy a useful but cheap vacuum pump (China style LoL) on Amazon?
    I send a sample...soon.
  • @Pharma @Graillotion Thanks both. I have been avoiding nut products, which is why I haven't already used macadamia nut oil despite its palmitoleic acid content... I am always tempted but then I am worried I will love it ...
    When I started this last hand cream project....there were only two knowns.....
    Illipe would be the butter....
    And Mac Nut and Black Currant .... would be part of the oil profile.
  • @Pharma Many thanks for the detailed information about nuts... I have to admit I can never remember what is a real nut or not, and which are related or not. I use my sister as a reference for "nut" allergies as she has a moderate to severe allergy to almond and cashew nuts and various other "nuts" (of which my memory can never retain). She definitely avoids almond oil in cosmetics, but has said she would only "probably" avoid macadamia oil.

    @Pharma @Graillotion I have considered the Floratech macadamia oil many times... and have always stopped myself from requesting a sample in case I like it. But *sigh* you have convinced me I should at least try it.

    I have tried ethyl macadamiate. It doesn't offer my skin any moisturisation as such, I would only ever use it for the feel as it's very light and fast spreading. But I didn't feel it offered any benefit over other fast spreading esters. I can't remember exactly but I think it also absorbed too quickly for me. I am usually trying to extend playtime rather than speed up absorption!

    @Graillotion I am also using illipe butter thanks to your raves about it. What concentration range do you find yourself using it at for a hand/body cream? Do you use much more than 1-1.5%?
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    ...She definitely avoids almond oil in cosmetics, but has said she would only "probably" avoid macadamia oil.
    ...
    I have tried ethyl macadamiate. It doesn't offer my skin any moisturisation as such, I would only ever use it for the feel as it's very light and fast spreading. But I didn't feel it offered any benefit over other fast spreading esters. I can't remember exactly but I think it also absorbed too quickly for me. I am usually trying to extend playtime rather than speed up absorption!
    ...
    Go with highly refined oils and butters and there are as good as no allergens left (because these are proteins). Sure, highly allergic people shouldn't eat them but for the rest of us...
    Correct, the combo macadamia and ethyl ester results in exactly what you describe. For me, this is very interesting but for dry skin not so much where native oils and butters are a better option than ester oils.
  • The Floratech Mac nut oil...will be as refined as you will find....(for good or bad...I think in your case...for the good.)

    And you are correct, I never ask the esters to shoulder the load when it comes to moisturizing, they are there for texture.

    On the Illipe hand cream....I am using a very low rate (1%), because I am trying to make a product that does not 'fingerprint' much on the modern devices we live with.  Depending how the first hand cream goes....maybe I will make an 'industrial strength' version later on...hehehe.
  • @Pharma @Graillotion How does macadamia oil feel compared to avocado oil?

    @Graillotion I keep swinging between 1 and 1.5% illipe butter. The skin on my hands is so dry, it just soaks humectants and oil up and I literally never make fingerprints  :D. Before the pandemic when I actually took flights, the airport immigration officers would be puzzled by my lack of fingerprints on the machines and ask me to rub my fingers on my face then try again.

    @Pharma On the topic of esters not being used for moisturisation, what do you think of dicaprylyl carbonate? It's one of the few vegetable oil alternatives that I can add without making a cream drying on my skin, and I like the cushioned afterfeel. I notice BASF describe it as a "carbonate" rather than an "ester". Is there any reason why dicaprylyl carbonate would be less drying on my skin (when replacing a vegetable oil) than most other esters?
  • PharmaPharma Member, Pharmacist
    @Pharma @Graillotion How does macadamia oil feel compared to avocado oil?
    ...
    @Pharma On the topic of esters not being used for moisturisation, what do you think of dicaprylyl carbonate? It's one of the few vegetable oil alternatives that I can add without making a cream drying on my skin, and I like the cushioned afterfeel. I notice BASF describe it as a "carbonate" rather than an "ester". Is there any reason why dicaprylyl carbonate would be less drying on my skin (when replacing a vegetable oil) than most other esters?
    Avocado oil on my skin feels oily and sticky, mac nut oil is just wonderful, smooth, and sinks in beautifully without that drag most others have. Hard to describe...
    I have dicaprylyl carbonate and it does feel pretty much like all the other low viscosity ester oils. It is a 'double ester' wherein the acid part is carbonic acid instead of a fatty acid. I have no idea why it does what it does on your skin. However, its structure is somewhat different and its interactions with skin are expected to be different too. Still, I'm somewhat astonished and will do a trial, neat, carbonate against ester oils, next time I take the bottle into my hands (if I don't forget to). I should also ask my wife to participate, her skin sounds like yours... I often joke that she could survive simply by using body lotion instead of eating.
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 2021
    Pharma said:

    I have dicaprylyl carbonate and it does feel pretty much like all the other low viscosity ester oils. It is a 'double ester' wherein the acid part is carbonic acid instead of a fatty acid. I have no idea why it does what it does on your skin. However, its structure is somewhat different and its interactions with skin are expected to be different too. Still, I'm somewhat astonished and will do a trial, neat, carbonate against ester oils, next time I take the bottle into my hands (if I don't forget to). I should also ask my wife to participate, her skin sounds like yours... I often joke that she could survive simply by using body lotion instead of eating.
    How would you compare it with Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, @Pharma
    A cursory glance at US re-packers drew a blank.  But I can get....and use... CCC (used in the hand cream).
  • On the topic....OF using esters as moisturizers....just so I can tuck this into my data banks....what lite esters also do double duty....and do a little moisturizing on the side? @Pharma (Not the crazy exotic stuff I can't get....but ones I can get...hehehe.)
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 2021


    @Graillotion I keep swinging between 1 and 1.5% illipe butter. The skin on my hands is so dry, it just soaks humectants and oil up and I literally never make fingerprints  :D. Before the pandemic when I actually took flights, the airport immigration officers would be puzzled by my lack of fingerprints on the machines and ask me to rub my fingers on my face then try again.


    Hey....I came across something that really has me puzzled.  This oil....seems to lubricate skin at a crazy level...both in what feels like moisturizing...and durability....I mean hours....and hours....

    https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/carrier-oils/tamanu-carrier-oil-virgin-vietnam.html

    Now keep in mind...and you can check with @Pharma on this one....(it might be a nut oil).  But when I was kidding about making an industrial strength hand cream....this immediately came to mind.

    Couple of notes....they sell several versions....and I have gotten I think 3....and this is the ONLY one that behaves in that manner.  It also has a reasonable amount of color and scent...(not awesome in my opinion...hehehe.)  I use this in a pain cream that has a VERY strong scent...so it does not come through. 

    But if you are having trouble finding a natural oil...that seriously does something....worth a look.

    Nothing super exciting in the fatty acid profile...just another Oleic on paper....but on the skin....hmmmn!
  • @Pharma @Graillotion Thanks both. I have been avoiding nut products, which is why I haven't already used macadamia nut oil despite its palmitoleic acid content... I am always tempted but then I am worried I will love it and not be able to add it in the final product. Apparently Phytosteryl Macadamiate (which I have tried) has 20% palmitoleic acid as well... but I've never got it to not feel heavy in a cream.

    I am using avocado oil at the moment for the palmitoleic acid.. and it's fine but sea buckthorn oil has a much nicer, more neutral afterfeel instead of the slightly oilier afterfeel of avocado oil.

    @RedCoast I haven't actually tried the sea buckthorn oil in an emulsion yet - I can tell even 1% will make it yellow! I should try it though...

    I intended to reply earlier, but life caught up with me. xD
    Keep in mind that highly pigmented oils don't necessarily pigment the skin if you dilute it enough and add the right polymers if needed... we only apply lotions thinly enough anyway (at least, I hope so!) and our skin does have color, so it would usually  "disappear". I'm fairly pale (Fitzpatrick II) and I noticed a slight orange coloration on my face at 10% concentration.
  • abierose said:
    Would adding Lauryl Laurate help counteract that yellow color? It tends to make things ultra white...🤷‍♀️
    I used myristyl myristate at the time, and it did "whiten" it a bit... I didn't experiment with the coloration too much, because I liked the orange/golden color! Montanov L could help if the orange bothers you too much.
    If you happen to get a "super pigmented" batch of sea buckthorn oil, you will likely needreduce the percentage or change up your other ingredients a bit.
  • Pharma said:
    Avocado oil on my skin feels oily and sticky, mac nut oil is just wonderful, smooth, and sinks in beautifully without that drag most others have. Hard to describe...

    I have dicaprylyl carbonate and it does feel pretty much like all the other low viscosity ester oils. It is a 'double ester' wherein the acid part is carbonic acid instead of a fatty acid. I have no idea why it does what it does on your skin. However, its structure is somewhat different and its interactions with skin are expected to be different too. Still, I'm somewhat astonished and will do a trial, neat, carbonate against ester oils, next time I take the bottle into my hands (if I don't forget to). I should also ask my wife to participate, her skin sounds like yours... I often joke that she could survive simply by using body lotion instead of eating.
    @Pharma Refined avocado oil doesn't feel sticky to me at all.. maybe due to my dry skin soaking it all up! Maybe slightly "oily" but not uncomfortably so. I found unrefined avocado oil very thick and sticky though... I only used it a very long time ago. I am intrigued by your description of macadamia nut oil... will hopefully get to try it this week!

    Dicaprylyl carbonate (and products I've bought containing it) feels more "plastic" on my skin than other esters... in a good way, like a thin, flexible film, rather than liquid/oily. I only notice that my skin prefers it (in terms of moisturisation) to other esters after a while (days, weeks) either from using it consistently for that time and noticing my skin is much softer, or using it and then switching to another esters and realising my skin doesn't have the same softer anymore.

    Haha @ surviving on body lotion instead of eating! I sometimes have a crazy, irrational thought that the calories from the amount of cream I apply could be entering through my skin, and that I will slowly become obese.
  • jemolianjemolian Member
    edited July 2021
    On the topic....OF using esters as moisturizers....just so I can tuck this into my data banks....what lite esters also do double duty....and do a little moisturizing on the side? 

    @Graillotion maybe just on the additional moisturization side with data available for comparison. 
    Also Sensolene, not sure if you consider it lite but it broke me out over a few days. 
  • Hey....I came across something that really has me puzzled.  This oil....seems to lubricate skin at a crazy level...both in what feels like moisturizing...and durability....I mean hours....and hours....

    https://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/products/carrier-oils/tamanu-carrier-oil-virgin-vietnam.html

    Now keep in mind...and you can check with @Pharma on this one....(it might be a nut oil).  But when I was kidding about making an industrial strength hand cream....this immediately came to mind.

    Couple of notes....they sell several versions....and I have gotten I think 3....and this is the ONLY one that behaves in that manner.  It also has a reasonable amount of color and scent...(not awesome in my opinion...hehehe.)  I use this in a pain cream that has a VERY strong scent...so it does not come through. 

    But if you are having trouble finding a natural oil...that seriously does something....worth a look.

    Nothing super exciting in the fatty acid profile...just another Oleic on paper....but on the skin....hmmmn!
    Thanks for the tip! I will try it out one day. Everything my skin like seems to be strong smelling or strong coloured.
  • RedCoast said:
    I intended to reply earlier, but life caught up with me. xD
    Keep in mind that highly pigmented oils don't necessarily pigment the skin if you dilute it enough and add the right polymers if needed... we only apply lotions thinly enough anyway (at least, I hope so!) and our skin does have color, so it would usually  "disappear". I'm fairly pale (Fitzpatrick II) and I noticed a slight orange coloration on my face at 10% concentration.
    RedCoast said:
    abierose said:
    Would adding Lauryl Laurate help counteract that yellow color? It tends to make things ultra white...🤷‍♀️
    I used myristyl myristate at the time, and it did "whiten" it a bit... I didn't experiment with the coloration too much, because I liked the orange/golden color! Montanov L could help if the orange bothers you too much.
    If you happen to get a "super pigmented" batch of sea buckthorn oil, you will likely needreduce the percentage or change up your other ingredients a bit.
    It's not so much the colouration of the skin, but more the colour of the emulsion - it just looks so much more "refreshing" when it's off-white!
  • RedCoast said:
    I intended to reply earlier, but life caught up with me. xD
    Keep in mind that highly pigmented oils don't necessarily pigment the skin if you dilute it enough and add the right polymers if needed... we only apply lotions thinly enough anyway (at least, I hope so!) and our skin does have color, so it would usually  "disappear". I'm fairly pale (Fitzpatrick II) and I noticed a slight orange coloration on my face at 10% concentration.
    RedCoast said:
    abierose said:
    Would adding Lauryl Laurate help counteract that yellow color? It tends to make things ultra white...🤷‍♀️
    I used myristyl myristate at the time, and it did "whiten" it a bit... I didn't experiment with the coloration too much, because I liked the orange/golden color! Montanov L could help if the orange bothers you too much.
    If you happen to get a "super pigmented" batch of sea buckthorn oil, you will likely needreduce the percentage or change up your other ingredients a bit.
    It's not so much the colouration of the skin, but more the colour of the emulsion - it just looks so much more "refreshing" when it's off-white!
    I tend to agree, particularly when we're talking face creams/lotions...I think in general consumers prefer a white or off white product for face but body lotions can go either way...in fact, as a consumer...with a marketing background...who now makes skincare products (😆) I think you can pretty much get away with any color imaginable if you scent it appropriately and in a way that "matches" that color....for example, a body lotion that was orange would be better received by consumers if it is scented with an orange fragrance...or peach fragrance....as opposed to just being an unscented lotion that is the color orange...
    Anyway, I'm sure none of this is a new concept, but maybe worth mentioning 😊
  • GraillotionGraillotion Member
    edited July 2021
    jemolian said:
    On the topic....OF using esters as moisturizers....just so I can tuck this into my data banks....what lite esters also do double duty....and do a little moisturizing on the side? 

    @Graillotion maybe just on the additional moisturization side with data available for comparison. 
    Also Sensolene, not sure if you consider it lite but it broke me out over a few days. 
    Thank you.  I am using both in the hand cream...so maybe I have that area maxed out already. :) 

    I did have to take the level of Polyisobutene down to .6%, due to its shiny aspect...but I have plenty of other goodies helping out in that area.
Sign In or Register to comment.