Surfactants mixture micelle formation

AbdullahAbdullah Member
in Formulating
Does the time and method of mixing surfactants have any effect on micelle formation?

For example in a sles/CAPB/APG Shampoo with guar gum as thickner, would it be the same or different if i thicken the water with guar gum and add surfactants one by one vs if i mix surfactants separately first and then add the mixture to the water thickened with guar gum? 
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Comments

  • PaprikPaprik Member
    You should be hydrating your gum with all available water from the formula, otherwise you're risking separating. Meaning, if you hydrate the guar gum with water and add surfactants (which also contain water) after, the water won't necessary combine with the already hydrated guar gum. 
    So you should combine all surfactants, add water, mix it and add your gum afterwards. So the gum has all the water and can thicken the whole phase. 
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @Paprik the gum doesn't mix correctly in surfactant solutions as i have experienced. 
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    @Abdullah- that's been my experience as well, and many other formulas I've seen incorporate the gum into the water first. I always figured any charges (even weak van der waals forces) of the surfactants could interrupt the way the gum sets up. 

    Unfortunately I don't have an answer to your actual question- there might be an experiment you could design to quantitatively answer that but at the end of the day you could try making the same formula each way and then assessing performance.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @EVchem thanks for sharing your experience. 
    If i mix surfactants first and then add it to thickened water phase with gum the final viscosity is higher than if add surfactants one by one to gum thickened water phase.

    I don't notice any difference in performance
  • PaprikPaprik Member
    Abdullah said:
    @Paprik the gum doesn't mix correctly in surfactant solutions as i have experienced. 
    Do you slurry the gum prior to adding it into the surfactant solution?
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    @Paprik yes
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