Problem in Formula

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Comments

  • Abdullah said:
    @Dreamer77 which country are you living in? 
    Greece
  • Dreamer77Dreamer77 Member
    Pharma said:
    Abdullah said:
    Can i ask which silicone oils?
    The product is made by Stratapharma. The label says 'polysiloxane, siloxane resin'; the former is also known as dimethicone. Obviously, not even the sales rep knows which ones exactly.
    I've tried it and it feels different than, say, pure 350 cp. My guess is that it also contains a volatile or very low viscosity one besides the liquid 'base' silicone alongside the high MW film forming derivative. Its a quite well spreading gel which dries quickly and leaves a film for many hours which is super hard to wash off even with soap.
    I'm not saying silicones are the only thing which works (though they work great, especially if not used in emulsion form). The main thing is proper wound care.
    You'd be amazed if you read clinical trials of products that are actually way better than silicones on scar treatment. Silicones are just way too cheap to use and they bring ridiculous profits on the companies using them. I am reading pubblished patents when I want to do something new and overcome obstacles. I will say no more as I believe that you can do some research on your own.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    This is like reading the script of the next Borat movie
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • Dreamer77Dreamer77 Member
    edited May 10
    This is like reading the script of the next Borat movie
    Out of curiousity, when you say that you do vegan formulas do you actually eat them? If you eat them do you become more beautiful and younger?. Sorry that I am not at your level of expertise, I am just a dreamer with a vision.
  • SilviaSilvia Member
    Dreamer77 said:
    I have solved the problem already, formulated it twice since last post and accelerated the stability issue by heating it up in temperature over 50C with no colouration whatsoever.

     When I say highend actives its not what marketers say for them but what I believe according to my experience is really high end.

    In the formula I have excluded ie Argireline and all known Botox like effect peptides but I include a couple of peptides from its creator, he has created a new company after he sold Lipotec to investors.

    I have a vast arsenal of actives already and quite a few formulas for various applications for both cosmetic and otc field, all tested with 100% success. If you're interested send me a message and we'll talk, I have already loads of results and I plan to set this formula on clinical trial myself as well. Also, there are actives out there that you have no idea they exist, the most expensive one that I have found costs around $15K per KG and it's not bee venom or such.

    Thanx everyone for the input, you helped me clear my mind and move forward.
    Hello, very interesting post. After reading your post I have some thoughts about results at photos and the product.

    You did a great formula, this is really amazing results, if it works even though only on mimic wrinkles. I noticed that mostly effect is on mimic zones, that is peptides work. I guess those which  acts at SNARE complex. It gives sudden botox like effect but only until you use it. Anyway is good to use such cream to get rid and prevent more wrinkles.
    You mentioned that so dramatic change occurs in 10 minutes after application. As far as I know physiologically act in so short time can only hormons, steroids or mediators. So I hope you don't use epinephrine, steroids as fluticazone or others. 
    So if these amazing  effects would occured after 2 or 4 weeks daily application it would be more convincable to me about the long lasting effectivness of formula. 
    But still the results are impressive! Make a brand name!
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Appropriately-designed - published in peer-reviewed context that address efficacy, nature and limitations of your formulas can be informative.  Pictures such as those above offered as "proof" for alleged efficacy are neither novel nor compelling.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Dreamer77 said:
    This is like reading the script of the next Borat movie
    Out of curiousity, when you say that you do vegan formulas do you actually eat them? If you eat them do you become more beautiful and younger?. Sorry that I am not at your level of expertise, I am just a dreamer with a vision.

    Yes, absolutely.  Not only do my vegan formulas make you more beautiful when you eat them ... they also eliminate halitosis and flatulence. 
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • 1Armand21Armand2 Member

    Can you share with us your ingredients please so that we can analyze!  Thanks
  • PhilGeisPhilGeis Member, Professional formulator
    Dreamer - where do you access relevant clinical trial data for peptides?
  • PhilGeis said:
    Dreamer - where do you access relevant clinical trial data for peptides?
    I get them by searching over the internet on various sites, from various pubblications, by reading various patents and from the manufacturing companies themselves. 

    1Armand2 said:

    Can you share with us your ingredients please so that we can analyze!  Thanks

    Silvia said:
    Dreamer77 said:
    I have solved the problem already, formulated it twice since last post and accelerated the stability issue by heating it up in temperature over 50C with no colouration whatsoever.

     When I say highend actives its not what marketers say for them but what I believe according to my experience is really high end.

    In the formula I have excluded ie Argireline and all known Botox like effect peptides but I include a couple of peptides from its creator, he has created a new company after he sold Lipotec to investors.

    I have a vast arsenal of actives already and quite a few formulas for various applications for both cosmetic and otc field, all tested with 100% success. If you're interested send me a message and we'll talk, I have already loads of results and I plan to set this formula on clinical trial myself as well. Also, there are actives out there that you have no idea they exist, the most expensive one that I have found costs around $15K per KG and it's not bee venom or such.

    Thanx everyone for the input, you helped me clear my mind and move forward.
    Hello, very interesting post. After reading your post I have some thoughts about results at photos and the product.

    You did a great formula, this is really amazing results, if it works even though only on mimic wrinkles. I noticed that mostly effect is on mimic zones, that is peptides work. I guess those which  acts at SNARE complex. It gives sudden botox like effect but only until you use it. Anyway is good to use such cream to get rid and prevent more wrinkles.
    You mentioned that so dramatic change occurs in 10 minutes after application. As far as I know physiologically act in so short time can only hormons, steroids or mediators. So I hope you don't use epinephrine, steroids as fluticazone or others. 
    So if these amazing  effects would occured after 2 or 4 weeks daily application it would be more convincable to me about the long lasting effectivness of formula. 
    But still the results are impressive! Make a brand name!
    Hey thanx for the comment. The only time I have used hormones such as epinephrine it was upon request of the client. It was about a custom anesthetic ointment to be used as a strong anestetic for topical application for the face area (lips eyebrows) as the client is a tattoo artist and requested of a fast acting, anesthetic product and specifically wanted epinephrine to be used in the formula. I do not use steroids or drugs on any of my formulas. I just envision the result I want to bring and study the actives that I want to use. I use actives that have similar properties and that are being produced by different manufacturers. I also use various penetration enhancers (depending on the formula) like ethoxydiglycol, dimethyl isosorbide, msm, dmso (not for cosmetics) and very rarely essential oils.

    Upon first application a strong muscle relaxation occurs which is being followed by a noticable wrinkle reduction (it usually starts upon 1st  application and the results keep going on even 2hrs after). By using the one single peptide that is causing this, on clinical trials the manufacturer reduced wrinkles up to 25% in 4 weeks of use. This is veey good but not enough for me as I am trying to max it out, 25% is my starting point,  then included a vast arsenal of other peptides that were clinically proven to work,  that work on long term in conjuction with oligoelements, ceramides, minerals, aminoacids and vitamins that nourish the skin and bring better protection/regeneration etc. For preservative I use Spectrastat (top notch preservative that does not cause eye irritation, works also as a chelant thus eliminating the need to use EDTA or such, and has moisturising properties as well). I also use humectants like glycerine, Pentavitin and actives that are extracts in glycerine paired to humectants with no sticky properties. I also use Sodium Hyaluronate in powder form that dissolves in water and works as a long term filler along with particles that contain botox like peptide and precious metals.

    Finally and most importantly of all, the base of the emulsion consists of a mix of cetearyl alcohol cetyl alcohol stearic acid combined with non ionic emulsifier, cationic thickener and non ionic gelifier. I use cupuacu butter, murumuru butter, jojoba esters, retinoid like oils and mastic tree oil extracts. I do not use any Dimethicone ( even though it enhances aesthetics of the formula skin feel and speading). By using the oils and butters above I have managed to create a skin similar/identical structure as the mix contains stearic/palmitic/behenic/lignorenic/oleic acids that are structural components of our skin.  Finally in order to mask the odours and give a pleasant smell I use a perfume with odour masking capabilities. As you may already understand this is an expensive formula to produce on large scale so I have not left anything in chance.

    The result is the following....the user gets impressed by the initial strong and fast wrinkle reduction which leads to a more rested youthful appearance with higher luminosity on the face...this luminosity is further increased with use of the product as it contains Taurine and retinoid like oils ( without the limitations of retinol). Moreover the use of dry butters helps reinforcing the skin barrier witout causing oilyness and glow. The humectants attract moisture from the environment and lock it on the external layer of the skin. The minerals help oxygenation of the skin and aid to the healthier metabolism of the skin.

    The end result is a happy face that is constantly nourished and hydrated, protected by all external factors that lead to aging (heat cold smoke uv radiation pollution). And a user that is somehow addicted by the use of the product as it is very hard to achieve similar results with any other formulation out there. The feeling of hydration is such that is second to none, numerous clients have reported of feeling extreme hydration that lasts well over 24 hrs with a single application and even though their skin gets washed in the meantime. 

    To give you a hint of the ingredients included, most of them have been awarded various prizes in beauty contests and shows from 2005 and on. Most of them cost between $300-600 per kg and a few cost well over $1500 per kg. The formula was created to become the queen of the formulas in any market and replace the use of day/night face moisturiser in conjuction with a serum. 

    I have also developed an eye gel like serum emulsion that works immediately on wrinkles, bags, circles, eyebrows, crows feet and also as a filler for topical application. 

    I was planning to throw the face moisturiser in the European market this September but some other plans I did, exhausted my funds and set me back for a few more months.
  • Dreamer77 said:
    PhilGeis said:
    Dreamer - where do you access relevant clinical trial data for peptides?
    I get them by searching over the internet on various sites, from various pubblications, by reading various patents and from the manufacturing companies themselves. 

    If you have got your information or formula from Google search and patents it means others already know how to make such a product and already making it. That is why they have patented it. But in reality there isn't any product in the world that does what your product can do if your results are real and photos are not photoshopped.

    So are you telling us someone has patented this but is not producing it? Or it is a common information on internet that people who doesn't need to know it, knows it, and chemists who want to know it, don't know it? 
  • This is like reading the script of the next Borat movie
    I wish there was a way to upvote this.
  • @Dreamer77 I'm sorry, but you're being disrespectul with some of the best formulators in the industry which are here in this group, and that tried to help you. The reason why you were asked for the list of ingredients (which will be public anyway if you sell your product), is to spot potential interactions that might cause the issue. No need to post percentages...without that info it's impossible to give you advice, but it's your choice.

    I'm glad you managed to solve the issue (it's better though to test the stability over time). About reliable source of information, patents are only informative (they are not peer reviewed evidence), being clinical studies (with robust methodologies and published in peer reviewed journals) the most reliable source of information for efficacy, which are scarce due to the high costs and the standards for being approved. And most of the high cost actives fail to pass this test (that's one of the reasons suppliers almost never publish their results in peer reviewed journals). 

    I hope you succeed in your project, and keep in mind that we are here only to help, but we need information to do that.  
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