Suggestions on how to make this formula more moisturizing and less tacky
abierose
Member
in Formulating
Hello all, I started working on a new facial lotion formula and made it for the first time today and much like a couple other variations I've made recently, it spreads on the skin fairly well but doesn't seem to be that moisturizing and also feels a but tacky...anyway I hoping you pros have a few suggestions for me before I waste any more ingredients š
Here's a screenshot of my formula in the spreadsheet file I create and keep my formulas in:
Thanks in advance!!
Here's a screenshot of my formula in the spreadsheet file I create and keep my formulas in:
Thanks in advance!!
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Diheptyl Succinate (and) Capryloyl Glycerin/Sebacic Acid Copolymer) š
Feel your ingredients neat....you'll answer your own questions.
Blend humectants...using some that are not sticky.
What are you using to lock in your moisture?
If you don't have a strong barrier function....it will evaporate as fast as your ingredients evaporate.
Need a chelator.
Rosehip seed oil is very fragile....need an antioxidant with an oil like that.
I find the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 stearate gives a sticky and waxy emulsions. Despite the fact that your formula contains too much glycerine, maybe you should change the emulsifier too. I don't think the Cetearyl alcohol has a waxy feeling, but it has a great stabilizing properties.
1) Every ingredient counts..... Lets look at something like fatty alcohol....there are lots of choices...the only way you will know which one to choose...is make your formula with each (common) fatty alcohol, that being the only ingredient changed...then evaluate the formula. The texture each will provide will be unique, and this is where it gets interesting...what feels good to one person, might not feel good to the next. So formulators on this site can not tell you which one feels best....only which one feels best to them! So me as an example... I like Cetyl esters best, cetyl alcohol 2nd best, and also use MM. So that is only what feels best to ME.... not what will make your product feel the best to you. I also tend to use ingredients at low level...as I think too much of anything...lends too much of its personality to the final product....as an example....if I have something that needs a lot of fatty alcohol to thicken...rather than go 3 or 4% of one...I will almost always blend two...to get the desired thickness....no science here....just preference.
As far as wow factor....in my opinion... you are lacking the super duper lite weight emollients.... I think you have read on this forum...what people are using in that regard....the premium products...are using lots of that....like in the 10% range. I of course use a blend...again to keep things from getting monolithic, or as you may have read....a cascading emolliency. I guess the simplest example of lite weight emollients would be....shake them....they should feel thinner than water. This again is an area....where no one can tell you what feels best...as that again will be personal preference. I keep about 6 of these on hand....and all have their own nuances....things like skin softening...shine...speed of absorption...etc.. So you use them where they fit...example...night cream....speed of absorption, you might not want lightening fast...shine....more is ok....etc. I also evaluate comedogenic ratings on those...one of my fav's I do not use in face creams....but pile it on....for body and hand.
Finally....wow factor.... I found with the liquid ingredients...I could not quite get there. Do not underestimate the power of the polymeric emulsifiers, and carbomer. There is immense differences in one's that people seem to toss around as....interchangeable. Trust me.... NOoooooooooooo.
Look at specialty ingredients...like Polymethylsilsesquioxane.... read everything you can on that one, or similar products.
But my final take away will always be....texture will always be personal opinion... I send samples to people around the globe on this forum....and I just giggle...at how different each person's perception is. What I might consider near failure...they might say is one of the best things they have ever felt.
Last but not least....create more versions of your product than you ever imagined....take notes...learn...and improve. Technique .... technique...technique... get the right equipment...and follow the mfg (not reseller) instructions.
I too have wanted to mix certain ingredient types like fatty alcohols...but in the past I have gotten feedback from others on the forum that I don't need more than one of each ingredient...so I'll start mixing ingredients like fatty alcohols...funny because I was just researching some others as I am getting a bit tired of the 3 common ones that are used all the time š
Anyway, thanks again! And back to the drawing board for me but at least I feel I have a better place to start, or continue, now š
As you are aware .... blending is more common place than you can imagine...as some like the aforementioned cetearyl are already a blend of cetyl and stearyl alcohols. Also many emulsifiers contain a fatty alcohol as a component.
Some formulators will select a fatty alcohol that they feel best strengthens their emulsion. I prefer to strengthen my emulsion other ways, and let the fatty alcohol selection be more based to the sensory experience it brings.
And yes....simplicity is a virtue, but it can also be a function of industry, which will compromise a texture (or tiny nuances they believe the consumer cannot detect) for ease of production, and lower overhead.
BTW: Cetyl esters does not thicken as efficiently as some of the others, so generally have to increase the amount used a little.
Sometimes one is forced to select your lite emollients...based on availability.
And I have found that cyclomethicone puts a nice finishing touch on things.
@RedCoast thank you! I love needing to buy more ingredients! I used to buy clothes....now I buy cosmetic ingredients š
Well, I see your new formula is a big mess. First you mix the PQ 7 - which is cationic, with the Glyceryl stearate citrate - which is anionic. Also I see the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 is still present in the new formula. Why is that? Too much Cetearyl alcohol - I guess! Why you put the Allantoin at the cool down phase? Also, why you are need of so much oils and emolients? Why your formula doesn't contain any polymeric thickeners? Also the percentages are totally messed up.
What it does do...is speed up the process of oxidation, incompatible ingredients and stress, revealing issues far quicker. Numerous times this very simply protocol has saved me from blunders, or has allowed me to make corrections before something got too far along. (If you are near completion of a formula....give it a couple rounds in the freezer, then back to the window...etc...etc.)
When I started... I got samples of just about every know 'natural' emulsifier I could get my hands on....and almost none of them passed this test + time, and why my arsenal of emulsifiers is pretty small.
I was once mixing EDTA vs Ethyl Lauroyl Arginate HCl which are incompatible in emulsions. The emulsions were stable but i was felling some shortness of breath when i was applying the lotion to my body. When i found that these two are incompatible, removing each of it made a beautiful emulsion without any problem.
I have been working on abierose to add some of those finer points to her product.
BTW...since fatty alcohols were a topic of discussion....one consideration is.... they all have slightly different melting points...so if you want a product that will perform at higher temps...that should be factored into your selection process.
I was adding EDTA at first and HCl at cool down. One day i decided to add it first at water face because it was powder not liquid,i first added EDTA then when i added HCl, a white powder like thing formed on top of water that was not soluble in water. Then i made another batch without EDTA and it was easily soluble in hot water. So i figured these two are not compatible.
Then I made two batches separately one with EDTA and another preservative and one with HCl and both were amazing with no problem.
Then i checked it's compatibility with each ingredient, it was not compatible with citric acid too.
if you can't find Emulium Delta, perhaps you can try Lipomulse Luxe. You can compared the sensory profile, which they have done so on the product brochure with Emulium Delta. It's available on Trulux.
https://azeliscanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Lipomulse-Luxe-Brochure-1.pdf
https://trulux.com.au/lipomulse-luxe/
I buy it directly from their representative on the MOQ which is 20KG if I am not mistaken. However, this product and the rest that you see that Gattefosse is producing you cannot find them easily at small retail shops that sell small quantities. Your best bet would be to use maybe another PEG emulsifier that's easier to get. There are other good emulsifiers and maybe stronger ones (emulium delta is peg75 stearate) with like peg100 stearate etc. The company , Gattefosse ia among the premium companies that do their own research development and production of their products and various actives that are very good. However, if you cannot find easy peg emulsifier for your moisturiser do not panic, all you need is a good non-ionic emulsifier (strictly non ionic) and 1-2 good non-ionic thickeners to pair with it and with the polyquaternium...also you need a non ionic or cationic type of cellulose/gum so as to have a much better aspect of the cream that you will create with the polyquaternium....and remember, you need a heavy oil phase to pair to the polyquaternium as it will make the skin absorb the oils like a sponge absorbs liquids....and if the oil phase is too small the skin will initially feel rightly tight but during the hours after application will feel wrong and dehydrated and will give a paper dry sensation...been there already and know exactly what I am typing....
Does PQ10 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride also speed up the absorption of oil?
If yes at what percentage?