Shampoo face rash

edited February 23 in Formulating
in an attempt to make a mild shampoo for myself, my formula below caused my face to become red/rashy/irritated the hours following my shower. It basically looks like i have a sunburn. 
why is my formula causing this? 


V1- red rashy face/“sunburn-like”
cocamidapropyl hydroxysultaine 3% 
coco glucoside 12% 
total active 8ASM

glycerin 0.5%
cetyl alcohol 0.5%
coco oil 0.2%
cationic guar gum 0.5%
xanthan gum 0.5%
salt 1.5%
citric acid 
no preservative. i make it, use it, and dump it same day. (work in v small batches)



V 2 - rashy, very dried out face

hydroxysultaine 8%
coco glucoside 9% 
SCI prill 2% 
total asm 10-11



how are companies like Tom’s of Maine able to make mild, minimalist shampoos with
decyl glucoside+glycerin+salt+xanthan gum...yet my minimalist copy cat versions is just harmful to my skin? 


thank you in advance! 

Comments

  • have the same problem!
  • are you experiencing the same problem with these exact surfactants?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @Climatechangeanxiety - is it just your product that causes the reaction or do you have this reaction with Tom's of Maine too?  If no reaction with their product, what are the main differences between yours and theirs?


  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    In your other thread I suggested that you may have a sensitivity to the hydroxysultaine as this was common to all of your trials. Try a formula without this and see if you get the same irritation.
  • AbdullahAbdullah Member
    edited February 26
     

    how are companies like Tom’s of Maine able to make mild, minimalist shampoos with
    decyl glucoside+glycerin+salt+xanthan gum...yet my minimalist copy cat versions is just harmful to my skin? 

    They lie about there ingredients. At least on there website.

    This is there ingredient list:
    Water, Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside, glycerin, sunflower oil, decyl Glucoside, inulin, xanthan gum, fragrance, lactic acid, citric acid, carrageenan, vitamin e, soybean oil.
  • @ozgirl ;  yes, I did remove CAP hydroxysultaine...and made a basic shampoo with only decyl + coco glucoside at 7-8ASM. Added some cationic guar gum too. My body itches went away, but the race rash (although less bad as it had been with CAP hydroxysultaine) reappeared. no sensitization anywhere else on the body. so the glucosides do slightly irritate me. 

    i do think i have sensitization to hydroxysultaine possibly due to the impurities..it just makes me want to itch... so ill be sticking with just nonionics/glucosides.

    im still trying to figure out how to make a glucoside-only formulation less irritating. any ideas? i have cationic guar gum already, and glycerol oleate though i notice it suppresses foam. 

     @Abdullah thank you for that! i didnt know that was the actual formulation list.

    @Perry I tried Shea Moisture Baby Shampoo recently which lists Decyl / Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate as their top ingredients...I had basically no sensitization to that shampoo. 
    the difference between my shampoo and theirs is that mine has fewer ingredients, no claims ingredients, lower surfactant concentration... meanwhile theirs contains a whole list of extracts, oils..claims ingredients..

    Perhaps i should add more claims ingredients to mine, it might help increase the mildness? 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @Climatechangeanxiety - adding more is not the best way to go about trying to figure out the problem.  A better strategy would be to do a knockout experiment.

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    edited March 2
    @Climatechangeanxiety:

    Try switching to Coco Glucoside from Decyl Glucoside.  Decyl is know to cause contact dermatitis.

    Ooops! ... try making a version w/o any Glucosides.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • @MarkBroussard strangely the coco glucoside irritated me more than the decyl glucoside. if decyl is a known allergen, why do major baby shampoo companies like SheaMoisure Baby, Pipette Baby; LiveClean Baby all use it as their primary surfactant?!
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @Climatechangeanxiety - because, you know...marketing.

    https://journals.lww.com/dermatitis/Citation/2017/07000/Alkyl_Glucosides__2017__Allergen_of_the_Year_.18.aspx

    They convinced consumers that sulfates were bad and a more "natural" replacement is glucosides. So, they used them for their products. The fact that after a few years of using them glucoside were discovered to be significant allergens isn't surprising. We have decades of safe use of sulfates. We don't have decades of safe use of glucosides. 

  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Climatechangeanxiety

    I too, have skin senstivitities.  The one product I have found that causes no irritation whatsoever is Dove Sensitive Skin Creamy Body Wash ... you can also use it as a shampoo.

    At the most basic of levels, there really is minimal to no difference between a body wash and a shampoo.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    @MarkBroussard - true story: when I was working on the VO5 line our marketing people wanted to launch a body wash. We just took the shampoo formula, adjusted slightly the ratio of SLS / SLES, changed color, fragrance and called it body wash.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    @Perry:

    LOL! ... Well, there's truth to that Wendy's commercial "Parts Is Parts"
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
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