about same surfactant but different supplier problem.

vhogionovhogiono Member
in Formulating
1. Hi, I need some insight about Cocamidopropyl betaine that I often use in my formula. The first supplier that I bought comes with very dark yellow color. He stated it is Swiss (i believe it is BASF although he doesn't say the trademark/supplier name). The second supplier, comes with a very transparent white (no color), and he said it is from KAO (amphitol 55AB).

I checked both SDS, and the active matter is almost same (around 30%). 

I tried both in a formula without color and both work succesfully to thicken my surfactant, but of course the yellow Cocamidopropyl betaine will cause the final product to be slight yellowish clear product. 

Is Cocamidopropyl betaine suppose to be yellowish or transparent clear? (I'm just worried that it have effect in the long term).

2. I also have questions about Decyl glucoside. Why do decyl glucoside smells really bad and strong? (is it just me?) It gives big impact on the final product aroma, and 1% fragrance oil is not enough to mask that bad aroma from decyl glucoside.

I tried all other glucoside family (lauryl glucoside, coco glucoside) and it has no aroma, but I really want to use Decyl as it gives the best foam and mildness.

Thank you and really hope to hear from you guys that ever use this surfactant.


Tagged:

Comments

  • Cafe33Cafe33 Member
    Well, when I buy my cocamidopropyl betaine it is almost clear in color. It will begin to yellow after some time. I washed and recycled a nearly empty left over 1Lt bottle that was around 1.5 years old and the residue was dark yellow with bad smell. 

    As far as decyl glucoside, I have the BASF version and there is hardly a smell. Again I found an old 1Lt bottle (same box!) with around 100mL I had forgotten about  which is also 1.5 years old. I just smelled it and it has no bad smell whatsoever. 

    Perhaps it is time for a new supplier?
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    edited January 2021
    the yellow colour of CAPB comes from residual impurities, specifically amines - if you've got the specifications for each material, compare them side by side
    as for decyl glucoside, short-chain alcohols (shorter than C12; decyl is C10) and fatty acids tend to have a naturally strong smell, as do their esters
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • vhogionovhogiono Member
    @Cafe33 Thank you for sharing your experience. I tried using this yellow Cocamidopropyl betaine 8 months ago, and for every 2 months, I keep buying from this supplier, and it is always yellow. However it does not smell at all. Until i tried this other supplier that stated from KAO, it is super clear white and i prefer this. As for decyl glucoside, 1 buy from 2 different supplier, and both smells bad. (Sorry, but its kinda like a fart  smell...).
  • vhogionovhogiono Member
    @Bill_Toge Thank you. Unfortunately I cannot get the specification for each material. These suppliers never want to share that information. I understand because i buy in small quantities, so this is my problem not their.

    As for decyl glucoside, is there any way to mask the odour? I'm worried if i have to increase the fragrance oil, as it will increase the chance of irritation and make my formula become unstable in the long run.

    Thanks once again! really appreciate your help
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    your best bet is to use a longer-chain glucoside, e.g. lauryl, myristyl or cocoyl
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
Sign In or Register to comment.