How to make Azelaic acid moisturizer formula less drying and more slippry?

ZinkZink Member
in Formulating
Ingredient INCI%
Behentrimonium Methosulfate1.00
Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides5.00
Dimethicone1.00
Cetyl Alcohol2.00
Stearic Acid1.00
Allantoin0.50
Water73.00
Azelaic Acid5.00
Bisabolol1.00
Glycerin3.00
Niacinamide5.00
Tocopherol0.50
Glycolic Acid1.00
Glucono Delta Lactone1.00

Azelaic acid is know for making formulas more drying, seems this one needs more triglycerides at the very least, suggestion as to what to add?

Maybe some high linoleic safflower oil would be good as a linoleic acid source (the triglyceride gets metabolized to fatty acids in the skin over time).
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Comments

  • ozgirlozgirl Member, PCF student
    BTMS is a drier feeling emulsifier. Can you change your emulsifier?
  • ZinkZink Member
    Yes certainly, do you think Lotionpro 165 would be better? What about just adding more Cetyl Alcohol instead?
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    edited November 2020
    azelaic acid is notorious for being poorly soluble in water and oil alike; what you're most likely seeing is suspended particles of the acid absorbing any available water or oil
    a highly polar oil like butyloctyl salicylate, and an alcohol-like solvent in the water phase e.g. propylene glycol, will help solubilise it
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • ZinkZink Member
    Thanks Bill, seems like more glycerin might also help then up to say 6%? 
    I've used BHB before but would like to avoid minimum orders for this one.

    What do you think of the following changes for the next iteration?

    +3% Safflower seed oil (high linoleic) 
    +5% Capric/Caprylic triglycerdies
    +1% Cetyl Alcohol (or could cetearyl be better? which is used in BTMS-25?).
    +3% Glycerin
    +0.5% BTMS (we're using 100%)



  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @Zink If you want more slip, then you need to increase your Dimethicone or add Mineral oil. Massage creams rely heavily on both.
  • ZinkZink Member
    Thanks @ketchito - i think the triglycerides can do the job of mineral oil here, but how much and what CPS of dimethicone would you suggest?
  • emma1985emma1985 Member
    edited November 2020
    I would start by cutting out the Stearic Acid. It's draggy. Replace with more Cetyl (glide-y.) 

    I also love the following ingredients for adding glide:

    Lauryl Laurate (super super glide-y)
    Isoamyl Laurate
    Coco Caprylate Caprate
    Neossance Hemi Squalane
    Ethylhexyl Palmitate
    Propanediol
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @Zink I'd use a 1000 cps dimethicone, increasing it from 1 to 2%. 
  • ZinkZink Member
    edited November 2020
    Thanks @emma1985 and @ketchito , here's a reformulation with more triglycerides, cetyl alcohol, btms and dimethicone + added safflower seed oil and lauryl laurate as a slip agent and lastly more glycerin as a solvent for azelaic acid (could make it a bit tackier..) - thoughts?


    Ingredient INCI%
    Behentrimonium Methosulfate1.00+0.5%
    Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides5.00+3%
    Safflower Seed Oil3.00
    Dimethicone (CPS 1000)1.00+1%
    Cetyl Alcohol2.00+1%
    Lauryl Laurate3.00
    Stearic Acid1.00
    Allantoin0.50
    Water58.50
    Azelaic Acid5.00
    Bisabolol1.00
    Glycerin3.00+3%
    Niacinamide5.00
    Tocopherol, Carthamus tinctorius (Safflower) Oil0.50
    Glycolic Acid1.00
    Glucono Delta Lactone1.00
    SUM100.0
  • emma1985emma1985 Member
    ketchito said:
    @Zink I'd use a 1000 cps dimethicone, increasing it frm 1 to 2%.

    Hi, is there any reason you are recommending 1000 cps over, for example, 350? I'm just curious because I have 350 and am wondering what 1000 has to offer. 
  • ketchitoketchito Member
    @emma1985 Dimethicone of 1000 cps is a higher molecular weight silicone than 350 cps, so it'd give you more slip than a 350 cps, that'd feel a bit more dry. I'm not saying the 350 cps gives a dry feel, since if you compare it to most esters, the 350 cps would still feel more lubricious. You can still use the 350 cps if you only have that one, and still perceive the benefits of dimethicones. 

    This difference between the 350 cps and the 1000 cps is more dramatic in hair products, where the 1000 cps would deposit more on hair due to its molecular weight. 
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