isostearyl isostearate vs DuraQuench IQ SA.... Value added?
Graillotion
Member
DuraQuench IQ SA :
So was wondering if anyone had worked with both products, and if the latter had any added value over just straight isostearyl isostearate. Additional moisturizing? Better feel? Any type of observations are welcome.
- INCI Name:Cetyl Alcohol (and) Isostearyl Isostearate (and) Potassium Cetyl Phosphate (and) Cetyl Stearate (and) Stearic Acid
So was wondering if anyone had worked with both products, and if the latter had any added value over just straight isostearyl isostearate. Additional moisturizing? Better feel? Any type of observations are welcome.
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I know ISIS is available from Croda etc as well but I've started feeling guilty about the samples I've been requesting and receiving from distributors lately, and then not getting the result I want from the samples, and so not having any plans to purchase in the future. I'd rather pay to buy from a repackager and not feel that guilt of feeling like a freeloader!
I am waiting for the ISIS to arrive. Not sure yet what I'm planning to do with it - I guess it depends on how it feels. If it feels quite light, I guess I'll try replacing some caprylic/capric triglyceride.
The DuraQuench material with the fatty alcohols sounds a bit heavy for what I need, but I wish there was a way to see and feel materials virtually without having to order them in!
I did make the formula yesterday, adding some cetyl esters....and felt that was a nice addition. I also have some Lauryl Laurate arriving tomorrow...will see how I like that in there.
Then just a matter of picking my butter/s....and experimenting will all the combinations of Mont 202, Mont 68, and Aristoflex.
So far I am loving the combo of Mont 202 and Aristoflex.
Why not try both? How much did you use? I've seen one study that supports 8%? CCT reducing TEWL 33% for up to 6 hours https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19296892/ but there also also studies showing ISIS reducing TEWL more than the equivalent dose petrolatum https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20642769/
I'm thinking of combining 5% CCT with 3% Duraquench in a BTMS based emulsion, but I'm also concerned by dragginess. Perhaps 1-2% Jojobaesters KW20 is a more elegant alternative here, but I'm concerned it creates a film that makes makeup application difficult?
I didn't find that Floraesters K20W creates a film. It's absorbs quite cleanly without any residue. It wasn't for me in the end. I think it's meant to be used to enhance the humectancy of glycerin, but it wasn't as effective as pure glycerin in the end. I like Floraesters 20 though - I find it helps to create a light barrier in the same way as cetyl alcohol does, but without the heaviness of cetyl alcohol when applying. It doesn't moisturise by itself though - it just helps to hold in and extend the moisturisation of the other oils and humectants, even at less than 1%. It leaves a more smooth/cushioned afterfeel than Floraesters K20W.
Floratech propose the hydrolyzed (basically Floraester 20 C42:2 split in half) K20W ester blend traps glycerin on the surface of the skin increasing its humectant potential. How can you tell it's not as effective? Why not add it in a 1:3 ratio with glycerin or are you saying you think just adding more glycerin does a better job rendering K20W unnecessary?
I could understand how K20W would make a product feel a bit more sticky if it keeps more glycerin on the skin surface.
https://www.floratech.com/PDFs/ClaimSheets/CS10-021.pdf
https://www.floratech.com/PDFs/ClaimSheets/CS10-030.pdf
How much C42:2 wax esters does jojoba oil contain btw?
With my original gel cream formulation, at 1.5% Glycerin, my pillow case would stick to my face due to the tackiness, and i can still feel the Glycerin in the morning.
With the K-20W, at 2% with 1.5% Glycerin, skin feel wise, it seems to alter the tackiness significantly. Touching my face, at about 30 mins after application, it's as though i had not applied anything, but my formulation is still working as my dry patch went away as i tested it for at least 5 days. When i used 3% K-20W with 3% Glycerin, the skin feel is the same. I'll probably try loading it with 5% Glycerin next.
My skin is prone to breaking out but so far it's significantly effective for my dry skin, no breakouts so far.
I could tell the Floraesters K20W + glycerin mix (I tried 1:3) was not as good as glycerin on its own from using it on my skin (hands and body). At first I thought it seemed like the performance was the same (and I was glad to be able to reduce glycerin), but then after a few uses my skin started being visibly dry. My skin just seems to really like glycerin. I also have dry skin that feels minor differences in formulations very quickly - it's been the bane of my adult life but is quite useful in testing tiny tweaks.
I'm ok with the level of glycerin now. I was just trying to find ways to reduce it as it was causing a strange smell in the final product. Then I realised (but only after many days of researching and trying every other humectant) it was just that batch of glycerin that was smelly.
I found replacing part glycerin with K20W was much less cushioned and sticky than glycerin on its own. But there was initial sheen from the K20W which I get from all jojoba-based products..
I think you would like diglycerin - it does the job of what I thought K20W was going to do, without the sheen or loss in moisturisation.
I've only tried Floraesters 20 up to 1%. The skin feel is more refined than jojoba oil. It's really nice and actually melds into the skin while still providing a light barrier, unlike some waxes which just feel like they sit on top of the skin (I got a bad result from Hydrogenated Olive Oil Decyl Esters recently that did that). Although again, there is a hint of a jojoba sheen when applying. I haven't found a suitable replacement for it yet (would like to reduce that sheen). I also tried Floraesters 30 which was too lubricated and oily for me.
I have no idea about the C42:2 wax esters content!
It was from here: https://www.essentialingredients.com/pdf/Floraesters15vJojobaoil.pdf
Aka soaping effect? You could add 1% dimethicone to get rid of that.
Kudos for doing elaborate experiments. Are you making products for yourself or for others btw?
Why aren't you using it then?
Re: Jojoba oil, if I read the below study right it's around 50:50 oils and wax esters, so approx 35% C20 eicosenoic acid and 24% C42 wax ester as its two largest constituents. Wonder if this implies you could use 4% jojoba oil and get similar moisturization efficacy to 1% floraester 20 which presumably is pure ester?
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.1057.4104&rep=rep1&type=pdf
I haven't given up yet on the soaping yet though... there are a few other ingredients left to try.
I would like to eventually try to launch a skincare product or range.. only if I can get the first product to feel and look the way I want it to. The moisturisation is where I want it, but there is still room for improvement on the look and feel. It's close but not yet ready. It's become a bit of an obsession. I am using the samples on myself and the kids in the meantime.
I am!
I'm not sure, but I saw the below chart recently from https://www.floratech.com/PDFs/Articles_MKT/MKT35.pdf ("The Chemistry of Floraesters"). When I tried Floraesters 15 (liquid and the closest of the esters to jojoba oil), it was nowhere near as effective at TEWL reduction as Floraesters 20. Even if I used Floraesters 15 at 4x the level I was using Floraesters 20, I don't think it would have stopped my skin drying out... not to mention the difference in feel. There is much less cushion and protective feel with the Floraesters 15. And then Floraesters 30 was a greasy mess for me without being improving overall moisturisation performance. So perhaps the TEWL reduction is mostly coming from "monoenes"? (I need the "shrug" emoji here because I don't have enough chemistry nous sadly!)
Just my 5 cents, but from a marketing POV there's very little to gain by not using them (since it's so common now to be "free of" everything it's not a strong differentiator) and 99.9% of consumers just care about performance. I'd be more skeptical of adding something like Gransense from a long-term safety POV as its constituents are less well studied.
There's a study that supports combining glycerin with diglycerin btw: 2016 Moisturizing effects of diglycerol combined with glycerol on human stratum corneum
I probably do have abnormal skin. I know I sound crazy and/or naive but using my own skin as a test bed is working well at the moment and is quick and easy. Once I am satisfied with how it performs and feels for myself, I will of course get more opinions. I have people who have tried old iterations of the formulation who liked it, but I'm not yet completely satisfied with the sensory aspects myself.
Yeah I've seen the glycerin:diglycerin studies - and for once, the results are reflected in real life for me. Unlike many other studies of interesting ingredients which ended up not doing anything for me. Worst one - meadowestolide
just a few suggestions
good luck
best Cath