Formula for dog shampoo?

Hello guys
First  of all.. I have no experience as a chemist.I do work as a Pastry chef so mixing things together is a big part of what I do..but that's about it..I created this account in hopes that i could receive  a little bit of guidance as I am clueless when it comes to formulating cosmetic recipes.My goal is to set up a company that sells good quality pet care products(shampoos,moisturising oils and soap bars) which are based on good quality oils such as olive oil and coconut oil.Is it as simple as tweaking the ph
on a human formula? Any advice  or recommendation would be more than welcome.

Comments

  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Terrible idea. Soap pH is way unsuitable for pets not to mention the soap scum problem. NO, the pH can NOT be 'adjusted'.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    edited April 3
    Two years ago I had my own "Why don't I make a shampoo, surely it can't be that hard?"-moment... Many (unbelievably) bad hair days later I've learned that it really is that hard, and I already had some education in the relevant fields. Unless you are truly passionate about formulating and willing to spend a lot of time and money learning, I would recommend that you work with an experienced formulator to develop a shampoo that meets your standards.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    @Agate - Absolutely. I found it much easier to learn emulsion technology than to make shampoo. I wasted a lot of surfactants learning. Each surfactant has different properties and it's not until you know them that you can properly formulate.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    @Belassi It's nice to hear I'm not alone with that experience. Is there a particular practice that you like to do to get to know a new surfactant or is it more of an organic process for you?
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    It's more an organic process. But I do various things, such as:
    foam test (graduated cylinder and time)
    note type of bubbles (eg fluffy, small/dense)
    flow - long, short, medium?
    pH limits?
    type? (anionic, amphoteric, nonionic)
    thickening?
    cost?
    Then it becomes a matter of seeing what synergies exist between them. There are several well known synergies with sodium cocoamphoacetate, for example.
    SLS/SLES/CAPB was the first combo I tried but rejected after comparison with ALS/ALES/CAPB systems. Finally I found an ALS-based blend that outperforms anything I came up with, so I use that plus CAPB for most things. Our market is specialty shampoos.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    edited April 4
    Very interesting, thank you.
    How do you test for pH limits? Today I was testing Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate for the first time, which initially dissolved into a milky-opalescent solution with a pH of about 6. I added some lactic acid and suddenly it became fully transparent below about pH 4-5 (with paper, pH meter is on its way). I was very pleased with my initial test (a hair wash with ~12% active surfactant matter and a bit of salt). Only later did I realize that the manufacturer recommends adjusting to a pH of 5.5-6. This had me seriously confused because my solution was opalescent at that pH, but now I wonder where the lower pH limit lies, and what might happen near or beyond that.
    I had a look at your website (pearandpeach.com?), are you mainly focused on selling your own brand or doing contract manufacturing?
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    We're not equipped to do contract work, it's only our own brand.
    pH with some surfactants is really interesting. Your experience doesn't surprise me. For instance, our first sulphate-free product (now discontinued) was based on AKYPO RLM-45 which is a pure carboxylic acid as supplied and requires neutralising. As the pH is adjusted, the viscosity changes radically.
    Right now we're shut down for personal care because we are moving. I am working on sourcing the materials to make sanitiser, about 600 litres.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    Now that you mention it I realize that there was some thickening as the pH dropped, when I get my pH meter I'll do a proper test at different levels.
    How do you market your shampoo, if you don't mind me asking? I keep reading how vital a strong online presence is, but your example seems to disprove this as I couldn't find much when searching.
    Hope you can find what you need for making sanitizer, ultimately we will all benefit from it.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    Marketing is different here because not many people buy on line. We used to use expos, market events and so forth but now we have enough customers and we don't really want to grow the business as we're both retired.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    Ah that makes sense, thanks for sharing. :)
  • UmffUmff Member
    Belassi said:

    SLS/SLES/CAPB was the first combo I tried but rejected after comparison with ALS/ALES/CAPB systems. Finally I found an ALS-based blend that outperforms anything I came up with, so I use that plus CAPB for most things. Our market is specialty shampoos.
     Belassi !  This is intresting <! ALS,can you see any irritations from it on the dogs skin?
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    We don't make dog shampoo as such but I use our ALS blend on the dogs with excellent results.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • BelassiBelassi Member
    I had better add the reason why we don't make dog shampoo: we can't compete with the prices the vets pay. They aren't interested. The same ingredients we use in human shampoo, and for the same reasons, can be used in dog shampoo, but the vets won't pay for that.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • AgateAgate Member
    A few years ago I spent something like $20 on a 16oz. "anti-allergy" shampoo for our cat... gullible pet owners aren't a bad market.
  • UmffUmff Member
    I sell dod shampoos today  for around 20-30 dollar a 400 ml, but its for show dogs- thoose owners pay - but they have also very high demands,,, and dogschampoo/conditioner  that really really work (clean+ care) is so hard due to the very big diffrens in skin/skin lipid at the dogs.
  • UmffUmff Member
    .. for not to mention all diffrent coat qualitys...

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