Free Fatty Acids

If you were making a fatty acid based cream, would a level of say 5%-10% free fatty acid make the cream more pearlescent or might it also make the cream too heavy in consistency? 
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  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 what is the product?
  • @Fekher I am thinking about a "vanishing cream" type of product to use after shaving but also for a shaving cream.  Many of the sources I have say conflicting things.  Some say 5%-10% free fatty acid will add pearlessence and softness to the cream and others say it will make the cream harder so that makes it difficult to assess. Thanks!
  • You can find some very old school vanishing cream recipes here
    http://www.cosmeticsandskin.com/aba/vanishing-cream.php
    but they are really old school and it shows.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 about shaving cream i will go with superfat between 5% and 10% it can give good resultat having soft shaving cream , about Vanishing cream i think whatever the superfat soap will not a good solution.
  • @Gunther - thanks for the suggestion and the link for Fatty Alcohols .... I have some Stearyl Alcohol I could use! Also, I already had that link open in my browser!  A good source!

    @Fekher - Some of my research suggested 3%-5% and other suggested the 5%-10%.  I recently tried the 10% but found it too stiff and thick so I will be trying the 3%-5% range next.  I'll check out a few Vanishing Cream formulas and see where that leads me...maybe I can find one with Stearyl Alcohol!
    Thanks, Gentlemen!
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @david08848 you are welcome for thickness it can be from other ingredients as high level of glycerin of using no adequat level of oils what i'am sure that you can with 10% superfat have lovely shave cream .
  • Bill_TogeBill_Toge Member, Professional Chemist
    I should think it depends which fatty acid you use - if you can get hold of lauric and myristic acids, see if they create a different effect to stearic acid
    UK based formulation chemist. Strongest subjects: hair styling, hair bleaches, hair dyes (oxidative and non-oxidative) I know some stuff about: EU regulations, emulsions (O/W and W/O), toothpaste, mouthwash, shampoos, other toiletries
  • David08848David08848 Member
    edited April 2019
    Fekher said:
    "@david08848 you are welcome for thickness it can be from other ingredients as high level of glycerin of using no adequat level of oils what i'am sure that you can with 10% superfat have lovely shave cream ."


    It may be because I am using high percentages of fatty acids and low percentages of oils.  It may also be because of using tea stearate in my formula as well as the ratios of KOH to NaOH.  It's a balancing act!  One version came out stiff and thick and the other came out like soup, wet and too light and the only difference was the ratio of KOH to NaOH!
  • Bill_Toge said:
    I should think it depends which fatty acid you use - if you can get hold of lauric and myristic acids, see if they create a different effect to stearic acid
    Bill, 
      I didn't see your post while I was posting but I did mention the same thing in my reply above.  I think that using a high percentage of Fatty Acids may be part of the issue.  I am using Stearic, Myristic and Coconut Oil (I made try Coconut Fatty Acids at some point).
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 i think you should improve the level of  oils and fatty acids to have bettter product.
  • @Fekher , I have been using information from many old Cosmetic Chemistry books such as Harry's, Pouchers, Flick and many more.  They all suggest a 45% oils/10% glycerin/45% water (including bases and additives) to get the best results and I am there.  They also all suggest a 5/1 ratio of KOH to NaOH which I also use.  The amounts of these oils/fatty acids that I am using is quite similar if not identical as those in some of these formulas.  My lather is very good, skin feel improved, slip and glide also are good but it is the consistency that I seek to improve upon, so I am almost there.  Lighter and more pearlessence is what I wish to create. 
  • Fekher said:
    @David08848 i think you should improve the level of  oils and fatty acids to have bettter product.@Fek
    @Fekher, I am not sure I understand what you mean.  Increase the amounts of the oils and fatty acids or select different oils and fatty acids to use?  Please explain, Thank you, kind Sir!
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    edited April 2019
    @David08848 i meant that you should first of all select the adequat fatty acids and oils i think that with only coconut fatty acids and stearic acid with adequat level and using 7% NaOh , 93% Koh with superfat between 5 % and 10% you can have good product.
  • David08848David08848 Member
    edited April 2019
    @Fekher , just to be clear, this is a lathering shaving cream sold in a container with a lid to be used with a shaving brush, it's not aerosol or a product dispensed in a tube.  I certainly can see the 5% to 10% superfat but I would think that at an approx. 1%/13% ratio it would be quite light and even liquid!  Thanks, I appreciate your input.

    This is the typical ingredient list for the British lathering shaving creams I am trying to emulate:

    Water, Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Propylparaben.


  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @david08848 actually i made my shaving cream the texture is good and creamy not liquid at all .
  • @Fekher ; Would you describe it as a "thick cream"?  When you tilt the container does it move within the container or does it stay still?  I'm looking for something that would have a pasty consistency with pearlessence that has enough body to form peaks when stirred but can easily be lathered with a brush.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 actually quite thick cream
  • @Fekher ; but it's a cream not a paste, right?
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 yes right.


  • David08848David08848 Member
    edited April 2019
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @David08848 for sure.
  • It sounds great!  I hope it works well for you!  Thank you for your help!
  • Gunther said:
    You can find some very old school vanishing cream recipes here
    http://www.cosmeticsandskin.com/aba/vanishing-cream.php
    but they are really old school and it shows.
    Gunther, Thanks, this is a good source for vanishing creams that I had found before.  I often prefer older formulations because they seem to have just what is necessary and nothing for what we would now call "label wow"!  Also, that site has many pages of old formulas with the sourcing as well so it is valuable for me to have to work on the rest of my facial and shaving projects!  Thanks, Gunther!
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