A soap problem

BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
in Formulating
I don't make much soap these days. Mainly for personal use. The problem:
The last few batches have failed. (cold process)
After mixing, the soap separates, voids occur filled with liquid. Here's the last formula, a 1200 gram (weight of oil) batch:

water as % of oil weight: 40%
superfat: 5%
fragrance: 'red berries' 3% (we've used it before without problems)
lye conc: 25.8% (NaOH)
cocoa butter: 15%
coconut oil, virgin: 20%
safflower oil, high oleic: 40%
palm oil: 20%
castor oil: 5%

values were calculated with soapcalc as usual.
On mixing and blending, the reaction seemed to be going too fast. It wasn't expected to be fast; the relatively high % of water and oleic oil should have made it fairly slow. About 20 min after putting in the mould, the soap began separating, voids and oil pockets developed.

I am beginning to think that perhaps our palm oil has gone off. It doesn't smell bad though. However this is about the fourth failed batch. Has anyone any ideas?


Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.

Comments

  • ChemicalPyrosChemicalPyros Member
    It seems to me a temperature problem, it happened and still happens with me (temperature differences between summer and winter). I suggest that you change the temperature and try it on a lower temperature.
  • FekherFekher Member, Professional Chemist
    @Belassi try hot process it will almost give better resultats .

  • David08848David08848 Member
    My soap formulas use water at the rate of 2.5 X the amount of the lye and yours is even higher than that at 2.87.  I put it through SoapCalc myself, which I don't normally use, and got the numbers you came up with.  I think the key here might be your temperature as was mentioned above.  Belassi, what temperature so you use for both your oil phase AND your lye phase?  Both are important!  I am typically in the 100-110F range for both...sometimes lower...


  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    I forgot to measure the temperature but I could comfortably hold the container without gloves. Probably about 45C.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • mikethairmikethair Member
    We make a lot of soap. And from what you have described, I would be looking first at the "fragrance: 'red berries' 3% ." Do you have a CoA for the fragrance? Is it the same as the previous CoA? 
    Dr. Mike Thair
    Cofounder & Chief Formulator
    Indochine Natural
  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    It's a different fragrance from the previous one. We had run out and the supplier had changed it. Yes, it could be the cause.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • smoksmok Member
    try this you would forget all your receips

    Almond oil   220  gr

    Coconut oil  118

    Olive oil 107

    Coca butter  107

    Shea butter   82

    Casto oil 51

    Avocado oil  15

    NAOH   93 gr

    Water  205 gr

    Total 998 gr


  • BelassiBelassi Member, PCF student
    Sounds terribly expensive.
    Cosmetic Brand Creation. Concept to name to IMPI search to logo and brand registration. In-house graphic design inc. Pantone specs. Cosmetic label and box design & graphics.
  • smoksmok Member
    you can use soapcalc and change some products
  • David08848David08848 Member
    Belassi said:
    It's a different fragrance from the previous one. We had run out and the supplier had changed it. Yes, it could be the cause.
    It must be the cause!


  • GeneGene Member
    My first guess was fragrance also.
  • WillWill Member
    @Belassi once I tried to make a soap with similar ingredients than yours (hot process ~140F), as the fragrance I had an old bottle of Coco Chanel that I decided to give it a go... when I added that the temperature spiked up like crazy in seconds, like scorching smoking hot, and it hardened almost immediately. It was the weirdest reaction I have seen in my cosmetics adventures.

    I have no idea what in the fragrance would give this unexpected reaction. Maybe I should have waited it to cool down more, but I was afraid of it hardening too much. Anyways, since that episode I have been scared of adding fragrances during my soap processes, as I feel they are kind of unpredictable.
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