Sucragel AOF - anybody taken a product to market using this emulsifier?

Glad2beGlad2be Member
edited December 2018 in Formulating
The reason I ask is because many of the "hall of fame" products cited by the manufacturers/distributors seem to have changed their formulations and don't list sucragel or a combination of any of it's components on their IL. 
I was wondering how it does in stability testing? I know that it can be tricky to use just don't want to waste time exploring if it's not a viable option.
Thanks in advance
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  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    There are tons of products with Sucrose Laurate, but none of them seem to have a combination of all ingredients of Sucragel AOF. I personally had negative experience with it. I made cleansing gels with several different oils (plus antioxidant and preservative) and they all got rancid in a couple of weeks. I didn't do a stability testing, they just got rancid under normal conditions. I would assume that I did something wrong, but the same oils were stable in lotions (with much more variables). It's an interesting material though. 
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    Thank You @ngarayeva001,
    Yeah, it's n interesting product lright, it's purported versatility is very appealing. I've only come across 2 products on the market which contain sucragel and both are oily gels. So, it might be worth revisiting for you.
    I haven't found any lotions or creams yet though. 
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    I experimented with it. Yes, it emulsifies, but the emulsion made with it is water-thin and rather sticky. Partially due to high content of glycerin. So, there is no reason to use it in lotions while there are so many good emulsifiers in the market.
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    Thanks so much for that info, sticky and thin is never a good combination. 
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    And sweet :smiley:
  • ChristopherChristopher Member
    That's unfortunate because I just ordered it the other day to use as a cleanser.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I was able to try Sucragel AOF and the Sucragel AOF Bio when it was first released. It does require some tricks to overcome the stickiness, but that is achievable. It was very process dependent. They had recommended low speed mixing processes, it worked best with a homogenizer.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    @Christopher, it’s an interesting material to try. I don’t know if it makes sense to use it as a traditional emulsifier but try it for oily cleansing gel. Choose an oil that is less prone to rancidity, make sure you add antioxidants and preservatives (it doesn’t matter that it’s anhydrous, it would be exposed to water). Regarding the process, check out this video by The Institute of personal care science on YouTube https://youtu.be/5gEi1892mOI
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    Thank you for sharing that information @Microformulation, it seems like quite  a labour intensive process. I have a couple of ideas for thickening and reducing stickiness, so I think I'm going to give it a try. @Christopher ; if you are interested in organic skincare, it's definitely worth experimenting with, it seems to be finicky, very ph dependent. Just discovered last night that the winner of the 2018 "free from" awards in the uk was an oily cleansing gel, from the IL, it appears to be based on one of the sucragels. @ngarayeva001 I've been lurking here quite a while and you are always so helpful and willing to share, Thank You.
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    @Glad2be, I am always happy to share my (limited so far) knowledge with others. Can you please give me the link to that cleansing gel? I couldn't find it on the website.
  • mariamaria Member
    edited December 2018
    @Gladtobe My guess is that Deciem Petrowhat? balm is made with sucragel (cf?)
    @ngarayeva001 I don't know if this may help you https://www.cossma.com/fileadmin/all/cossma/Archiv/SciencArtic/COS1111_30_ALFA_CHEMICALS_Sucragel_IMPAG_Kosmetikseminar_2011.pdf
    Also there are some tips aboute Sucragel AOF on this page.
  • mariamaria Member
    @ngarayeva001 there's a formula with high glycerine content (about 45% if you consider that sucragel AOF already contains about 50% of glycerine) found here: 

    BLOOMING BATH OIL

    A
    Sucragel AOF 40.00
    A
    Organic Glycerine 25.00
    B
    Sunflower Oil Helianthus Annuus(Sunflower) Seed Oil 34.00 
    B
    Neroli Essential oil Citrus aurantiumflower oil 0.2
    B
    Mandarin Essential Oil Citrus nobilispeel oil 0.5
    B
    Chamomile Essential Oil Anthemisnobilisflower oil 0.2
    B
    Pine Essential Oil Abiesalba needle oil 0.1

    APPEARANCE:
    Clear yellow liquid.
    MANUFACTURING PROCESS:
    Mix the glycerine into the Sucragel.
    Add the essential oils into the Sunflower oil.
    Very slowly under propeller stirrer add phase B into phase A
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    Yes, you can make some interesting products with it, but generally it is way too finicky, requires special process so is difficult for contract manufacturers to scale up.  I do you use it, but only in certain circumstances.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    edited December 2018
    @maria,  I checked the LOI of Petrowhat? and it looks like it's not sucrgel AOF, because I don't see any almond oil. Maybe its some other variety of sucragel.
    Regarding the Bath Oil formula you listed above, is it a cleansing product or you just add it to water?
  • mariamaria Member
    My guess is sucragel CF or XL, as I wrote.  Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides instead of almond oil.
    Regarding the Bath Oil formula you listed above, is it a cleansing product or you just add it to water?


    No idea :)
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    It looks like the one you add to water to me. In this case amount of glycerin is justified.
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    MarkBroussard said:
    Yes, you can make some interesting products with it, but generally it is way too finicky, requires special process so is difficult for contract manufacturers to scale up.  I do you use it, but only in certain circumstances.

    Exactly my experience as well. I got pretty good at dealing with its issues in the lab with a great deal of experience and you can produce some great products. However, they are difficult to ramp-up for most manufacturers.

    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    @MarkBroussard don't expect you to give any details but if you could give an indication of how your products made with sucragel stood up to stability testing? eg: all you need say is" oily gel =9 mths,  lotion=1yr...then, I will pledge undying love!!
    @ngarayeva001, here's links to winner and product page, note:It's not AOF Bio but definitely a sucragel. It worries me somewhat that this brand only has one product though, KWIM 
    @ngarayeva001 , here are the links
    https://www.freefromskincareawards.co.uk/
    https://harborist.co.uk/products/balm-gel-cleanser
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    edited December 2018
    @MarkBroussard @Microformulation, I'm sorry, I know it must feel like you're being pecked to death by a chicken..BUT...you both mention "special process" in relation to sucragel and scaling up...would you be able to elaborate?.. or even give me search terms? so that I might educate myself
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    Go to Youtube and search for the Sucragel. They have great videos. The issue for me is that the rate at which the phases are added. You must go super slow. Also, they show a way to make the oil gel without a Homogenizer. In my experience, it is nearly impossible to get a stable gel that way.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    edited December 2018
    They are stable at normal room temperature, but do not stand up well to excessive heat ... they melt.  And, the stability is a function of the particular oils you are trying to gel.  You'll get a more stable product with a Glycerin emulsion.  I don't find Sucragel to be worth the effort unless you are working in small batches.  Most contract manufacturers have problems trying to scale them up, so I'd punt on Sucragel unless you are making products for your own personal use.

    I have made stable creams with Sucragel as a co-emulsifier ... that is not a problem.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • ngarayeva001ngarayeva001 Member
    I posted a YouTube link above. It is possible without homogenizer. This material is  loved by DIY community (cuz ‘natural’). They do it with a kitchen mixer (not a stick blender but the one you use for making cakes) but it takes a lot of effort. I managed making a gel using not particularly powerful overhead stirrer.
  • EVchemEVchem Member
    @Glad2be I recently requested info on Sucragel, here's the link I was sent https://alchemy-ingredients.com/videos (probably the same videos mentioned above). 

    Although now I'm a little concerned, I was also hoping to make an oily gel.
  • MarkBroussardMarkBroussard Member, Professional Chemist
    You can make a nice oily gel with Sucragel and you don't need a homogenizer if you are a DIY making small batches for your personal use.  

    For Professionals developing commercial products the issue is that it is very difficult to scale it up oil gels made with Sucragel on a commercial basis.
    Chemist/Microbiologist formulating in the Organic & Naturals & Clean Beauty arena under ECOCert/Natural Products Assn/Whole Foods/National Organic Program/Clean At Sephora/Credo Clean guidelines focused skincare & haircare products. 

    See website for details www.desertinbloomcosmeticslab.com
  • Glad2beGlad2be Member
    Thanks to one and all.
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