Grape seed oil & Rose hip oil

DtdangDtdang Member
Anyone has experiences about grape seed oil and rose hip oil on lotion or cream? Are they really helping skin on acne, wrinkles, dark spot?

Thank you so much in advance.

Comments

  • @Dtang the claims about rosehip oil come from the fact that it actually contains some amount of tretinoin, however, the concentration is so low, that I don't think it will do anything for acne or wrinkles. Doesn't mean it's a bad oil. It is very emollient and can give a very beautiful color to your lotion (it contains betacarotene). It is great for dry skin in general. Grape seed oil is lighter and good for normal and combination skin. Contains some Vitamin E. But again I don't think they do anything serious. 
  • Thanks ngarayeva001.
    can both used in formulating together to improve the efficiency?
  • I think that the concentration of active ingredients in oils is too low even if you apply pure oil on your skin. You can use it as a marketing claim if you want. 
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    I agree, these are claims ingredients at best.
  • Thanks Perry and ngarayeva001
  • Yes.. grape seed oil is one of the most skin acne treatment material.
    I tried it and it was Excellent test.
  • Thanks Food_processer. Do you use grape seed oil by itself or with the cream containing it?
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    edited August 2018
    Good Lord. The naturalistic fallacy is strong in this post.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Microfoemulation!
    with your professional experiences, the natural formulation and synthesis chemical formulation, which one is better in general?
  • PerryPerry Administrator, Professional Chemist
    edited August 2018
    @Dtdang - Formulators who use both "natural" and synthetic ingredients can produce the most effective cosmetic products. People who limit themselves to only natural materials, will be limited in the performance of formulas they can make. Synthetic ingredients are used because they work better than natural ingredients.

    It's like being a painter who can use only three colors versus one who can use thousands of colors. Sure, both artists can make nice looking pictures but the painter with more colors will have many more possible paintings and styles to create.

  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    I was about to respond, but honestly, @Perry answered it more elegantly than I could have.

    There are some fallacies that MUST be overcome if you want to be an effective Formulator.
    • The fact that a product is "natural' (it is an undefined useless marketing term with no technical definition) does not mean that it is safer. This is a Marketing fallacy, Safety has no link to the source of the material. This is chemophobia.
    • Natural products do not work better always. This is the naturalistic fallacy. A smart Formulator looks at the claim or property he is trying deliver, considers the Marketing as a guide and then selects the best material he feels can deliver this claim.
    As Perry pointed out, the final Formulation is an elegant product that supersedes that target fixation of "natural" and performs as a whole. There are much larger concerns than "natural." In fact, the one-dimensional "natural;" marketing strategy of 2005 (I was doing these products then) is outmoded. The general feeling is that we are evolving to a LOHAS Market. (Read up on that.)

    Lastly, this is a Cosmetic Science Forum. Saying that Grapeseed Oil treats acne is absolutely false and a claim that can not be made. From a Formulators standpoint, Grapeseed Oil is one of the most oxidatively unstable oils available and using it in a product could have an adverse effect on shelf life. Stability Testing would show the extent of this negative effect.

    Cosmetic Science is...a Scientific pursuit whose beauty and elegance derives (for me) in its objectivity, the Scientific method of critical thinking and experimentation.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Thanks Microformulation!

    it makes sense.
  • I would like to add that you can’t get a consistent result with natural products. Using rosehip oil as an example, I ordered it from different suppliers and it was very different (color, emolliency, viscosity). I understand that even synthetic materials can vary from supplier to supplier, but natural are much worse.
  • ngarayeva001! I plan to buy it from making cosmetics. It has detail documents. 
    Do you think coconut oil (5%) + rosehip oil (5%) and vit. E (.5%) that can improve the stability?


  • @Dtdang are you going to use coconut oil on face? Also the conversation wasn’t about the stability it was about efficacy if I am not mistaken. You can reduce oxidation by adding vitamin E. But the fact it’s from a good supplier won’t make it reduce wrinkles.
  • Thanks ngarayeva001. You are right. I like the coconut oil because of the followings: Anti-bacteria - keeping the natural high note scents for longer time - There are many articles telling many good benefits for coconut oil. Is it true?
  • DASDAS Member
    Interesting claim. What are your sources?. 
  • @Dtdang As mentioned above, I am a Natural  formulator, However if I was truly natural I would sell mud. Water and dirt. Put it this way, If you buy into the hype about “ No chemicals in natural makeup, you may want to keep your day job. If you lay face down in poison ivy which grows “ Naturally what happens? I use the best raw ingredients to do the job but sometimes they don’t cut it! Synthetics are not bad they are necessary! Now Coconut oil unrefined is not proven to have those qualities. It has also been a slippery slope with my customers as many react to it. It is a heavy oil and must be avoided in people with systemic acne. It is however a great hair conditioning agent for once a week use.
  • @Dtdang the reason why I question coconut oil is that it’s highly comedogenic. Not all skin types can tolerate it. Oils don’t do much, their main purpose is to serve as an emollient. You will not get acne treatments benefits from it but can cause problems if select a wrong one. Research what type of oils big companies (Chanel, Dior, La Prairie, La Mer, Clarins, Clinique etc.) use for face products. You will not see coconut oil there.
  • Thanks ngarayeva001, Chemistrygirl & DAS.
    I agree with you about coconut oil that is not good for facial cream due to its comedogenic = 4. Thanks again. 
     
    DAS! If you google "coconut oil benefits for skin" you will see alot of information about it. Now, I understand that there are many marketing hypes. I must be careful about what I read on internet.

    So far, This FORUM helps me a lot! Thanks Perry.

  • DASDAS Member
    If you google hard enough you will find it also cures cancer.

    Trust only reliable sources.
  • Thank DAS
    Do you know what sources we can trust? I am very new in this area. 
  • MicroformulationMicroformulation Member, Professional Chemist
    They have a link above to these sources.
    markfuller@microformulation.com Microformulation.com Microformulation Cosmetic Consulting provides Custom Formulations for both large Commercial accounts as well as smaller entrepreneurs. We can provide Naturally compliant Formulations under the NSF, NPA, Whole Foods and USDA Organic Certifications. BS.Pharm Albany College of Pharmacy, Union University.
  • Thanks Microformulation
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited August 2018
    I've made my creams with cheap refined sunflower oil from the supermarket and also with the 'crème de la crème' like olive squalane, camellia japonica oil, kukui oil, prickley pear oil, rosehip kernel oil (together with rosehip seed extract and rosehip fruit extract), pumpkin seed oil, chai oil, oat oil.......

    I have found no single difference in the effect. I've never had comedones in my life and only now and then a pimple, but I didn't get more or less from pure vaseline, coconut oil, or the finest of pure oils. Also my skin didn't 'suffocate'. :joy:

    A waste of good money, but a lesson learnt. Most beauty bla bla bla about oils is just mostly marketing bullshit.

    p.s. I forgot my moisturizers on vacation and couldn't be bothered to buy others. The only thing I used on my skin those weeks: my self made 2% salicylic acid liquid exfoliant with 15% polyols once a day (no oils or any other lipids in it). My skin looked great and felt soft as a peach, the polyols in it obviously had enough moisturizing effect, because it didn't feel dry at all! (I have sensitive and dry skin btw!)
  • Thanks Doreen. Your experience is so great and helpful for me to learn. 
    2% salicylic acid with 15% polyols. How do you control the pH? What is original pH & concentration of salicylic ? I still get trouble about pH. Please help. Thanks.
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited August 2018
    @Dtdang
    I created a formula (Paula's Choice liquid 2% Salicylic Acid exfoliant as benchmark) and tweaked it here and there.
    The original pH of the SA solution is around 2.2, I adjust it (rather early in the cooling phase) to at least 3.0, otherwise the SA crystallizes out (if you keep it too long below pH 3), later when it's room temperature I adjust again to around 3.8 (with NaOH). 
  • DoreenDoreen Member
    edited August 2018
    @Dtdang
    I took the liberty to read some more of your questions/threads, and would like to emphasize that I don't recommend to create exfoliants like these (with AHA acids or others, like SA) if you've just started to learn making cosmetics.
    I wouldn't even recommend using acids and (strong) bases at all, before you know exactly what you're working with and what the potential dangers are/can be.
    (Please don't take this the wrong way, it's your safety and well being I have in mind.)

    A tip if you do want to make exfoliants: you can visit Susan on SwiftCraftyMonkey's website and start to make gentle sugar scrubs for example. Susan is a superb teacher and has great formulas.

    The exfoliant example in my first message I gave was just to show I didn't even need oils for my dry/sensitive skin then. And the point of my message was that you can use practically any kind of non volatile oil as emollient and that the expensive ones are advertised for marketing reasons only. Read @Microformulation 's reply about stability of grapeseed oil. Indeed best to choose the stable ones. You will find out by learning more about oils, why they oxidize and why some don't or hardly do.

    Side note about the expensive oils: I also meant using these pure on the skin (next to using a few % in creams). No more or less wrinkles/pimples than any other oil.
  • Thanks Doreen,great advice. I will do that.
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